The Secret Services and the Sannyasin movement (14 posts)

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years, 5 months ago:

    When I lived in Amsterdam, I heard a story of someone from the Dutch secret service who infiltrated the movement. He became so friendly with everyone, he eventually revealed his secret service connections and apologised to everyone.

    I am sure there must have been FBI plants on the Ranch.

    What about England? Suppose someone contacted MI5 and said he would pass on information in exchange for money. I am sure they would have been interested. I wonder if there was someone.

  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 7 years, 5 months ago:

    i lived in an ashram where the was an israeli couple, the guy was an ex-mosad agent, and the girl was a daughter of a high ranking general.. but that was known and they were sannyasins.. the guy used to “patrol” the house with his doberman.. a wee bit too paranoid… then again, another swami was screwing his wife, pretty much in plain sight, a few real nasty fights i witnessed… oops, the higher authority of SN doesn’t want those things to be told.. so sorry….not.

  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 7 years, 5 months ago:

    hey alok i post replies- quite a few, to Dharmen’s story, i’ll see if they post them or not.. SN is quite a piece of work.. just amazing how they want things to remain buried and denied.

  • Profile picture of sagara sagara said 7 years, 4 months ago:

    I was under the impression that Osho was the world leader of the secret service. He even wrote the book of secrets. He once told me there is only one secret….there is no secret. Whatever happened to English Gupta?

  • Profile picture of kavita kavita said 7 years, 4 months ago:

    English Gupta was probably the first inhabitant of the moon
    . . . oh was this supposed to be a secret ?

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years, 4 months ago:

    The Secret Services really exist in England. They advertise in the newspapers these days. Back in the 70s and 80s they did not advertise.

    As Parmartha pointed out, many sannyasins in the 70s and 80s were in severe financial stress. It is entirely possible that someone contacted MI5 to exchange info for money. Possibly someone with a military or police family background as they would know how to get in touch with MI5.

    For a few years sannyas was labelled by the Americans as a terrorist organisation, so MI5 would have been interested.

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years, 4 months ago:

    No doubt anyone employed by MI5 would be encouraged to promote the nitrous oxide story. MI5 has close connections with the FBI. The Americans may well know that the Parliament of India has a complete (!?) set of Osho’s books. They do not want Prime Minister Singh calling President Obama on the phone to complain about Osho’s murder by the US Government.

    MI5 is quite professional and anyone working for them would receive excellent training to maintain their cover. There is also the possibility that the person working for them has fallen in love with the movement a bit. That is what happened in Holland. Such a person would be in an invidious position. It would probably be a serious crime for them to “come clean” because of the Official Secrets Acts.

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years, 4 months ago:

    What sort of information would the spy collect? Some of the work of MI5 is collecting low-level intelligence just in case it is needed in the future. So, for example, details of sannyasins would be wanted…..legal name, sannyas name, possibly address, employment and educational background, drug abuse if any, why they got interested in Osho. That sort of thing…..for as many people as possible without arousing suspicion.

    I doubt the spy, if there is one, would do much meditation. I think he or she would avoid dynamic like the plague. You would avoid dynamic because who knows what you might say in the second stage or just afterwards when you are feeling vulnerable; you might give the game away.

    Here is the MI5 site for anyone interested.

    https://www.mi5.gov.uk/

  • Profile picture of dharmen dharmen said 7 years, 4 months ago:

    Correct me if I’m wrong and i may well be, but do you not avoid dynamic ‘like the plague’. Come on Alok, own up, you’ve been a spy all along.

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years, 4 months ago:

    Dharmen, it is true that for years prior to my sannyas (’86), and for years after, I was terrified of dynamic and avoided it. However I did eventually get into it, mainly at home and occasionally at Susann’s. This was mainly in the last decade, the 2000s. I have a conservatory open to the back garden which is great for dynamic. I have done several sessions of 20 or so days in a row. Now I am really too old for it, body falling apart, watching that is my meditation now.

    PS I presume your reference to me being a spy was a joke. I would be hopeless as a spy. I am hopeless at telling lies, people would see through me straightaway. And I am far too anti-establishment to be taken on by MI5.

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years, 4 months ago:

    Not only would a spy avoid dynamic, but he or she would avoid most meditations and groups. Osho’s work is designed to make you open and vulnerable and obviously this is the last thing a spy wants. There is always going to be the fear of being outed.

    How much would a spy be paid? Just guessing now, £200 per week as a retainer. Perhaps there would be expenses….maybe MI5 would pay for books on the movement, even a trip to Pune. I think a winter holiday in Pune is definitely worth having! How would the spy get names? Well he or she would start with friends and acquaintances. A good way to get names would be to organise groups or meditation events.

    PS I bet most of you did not know the the UK spends £2 billion per year on the security services at home and abroad. That is 2,000 million pounds. I read somewhere that it is more than is spent on the diplomatic service, all those embassies and consulates abroad and the Foreign Office in London

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years, 4 months ago:

    If there was a spy, are there any other ways we can identify him or her?

    Well, there might be a couple more signs to look for.

    First the spy would be under instructions to spread disinformation about Osho’s death, as I said before. The spy would say Osho died of nitrous oxide poisoning (if there is such a thing), or heart disease, anything except that he was poisoned in a US jail. In order to spread this disinformation the spy would try to give the impression he was an insider, he was close to the inner circle when he was not really. So look for someone who pretends to have been close to Osho when in fact he wasn’t.

    Second a person who is being deceptive has rigid body language…..look this up on the web. So look for someone with rigid body language. This should be easier to spot than among the population as a whole, because even a little of Osho’s work will loosen up body language.

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 6 years, 5 months ago:

    Interesting discussion here about disinformation and spy communication in general. I have never seen anything so explicit in print.

    http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

    I wonder if the Ed. is a spy.

  • Profile picture of bodhi vartan bodhi vartan said 6 years, 5 months ago:

    All ‘apparent dissent’ is and has been ‘manufactured’ for a while now. Probably since WWII. There is no other side, they are playing both sides, so the game needs to played accordingly. By the way, cointelpros hate the Dynamic Meditation.