“The Garden is beautiful. The business-mind is not.”

A business-mind is needed to become rich.

Was not Osho’s vision that a sannyasin is inwardly and outwardly
rich?

But still, he surely ‘created his own reality’ to a degree, like everyone else does, however ‘robotic’ our responses to life might be, within the limitations of our environment/society. Eg in the choices of job(s), partner(s), friends, enemies, housing, personal interests, hobbies, food etc. Beyond all that, to what extent is it possible to break free from unwanted personal limitations and conditioning and/or unwanted outside influences?

Setting aside creating a new ‘outer’ reality, eg through achieving favourable material circumstances, even ‘financial freedom, possible, at least for some, maybe many, dedicated or fortunate people, creating a new inner reality can happen on various levels, depending on how far one is prepared to go in order to free onself from the shackles of fear, self-doubt, and other unconscious, robotic responses involving, for example, anger, resentment, impatience, jealousy etc., moving on to deal with myriad other, ever more subtle layers of the self. (Ultimately, as I understand it, a process of seeing through the negative stuff, giving it up, rather than adding to the self, trying to ‘beautify’ what doesn’t need anything extra).

Even on the basic levels, haven’t we all felt the strange but wonderful sensation of ‘newness’ when realising a new level of freedom from one or more of these ‘life-killers’, and realising that we have more possibilities than we’d previously imagined, more inner space? And so our outer life begins to change for the better…

As within, so without…I recall Somendra making a point in a group of telling someone who was complaining about his life circumstances, “You ARE your situation!”

He wasn’t far wrong, I reckon, although it’s surely not totally true in every single case. As although, having cleared our space, we might naturally tend to deflect negative influences and attract the positive, we do live in a madhouse after all! Not only that, but sheer chance will inevitably bring a few tricky circumstances and situations to cope with – testing just how far we’ve come, and probably, how far we have to go…

I wouldn’t know, but perhaps the process reaches a point where one has become so clear, through conscious effort, choice and even ‘grace’, that one is in effect living more and more in a self-created, benign outer reality…maybe…except…physical good health can’t be guaranteed (eg Raman Maharshi, Osho) and in the world, once you start to annoy the powers-that-be…Jesus, for example…Osho too, although his mistreatment was not self-chosen like that of Jesus, although he ‘asked for it’, as it were, through his words and actions over the years – his ‘karma’, one might even say?

Could be a new thread indeed; maybe needing some more sunlight to fall from the ´topic-thread-tree´…
But why I second your take in any case is the (a) hint that what is called ´satsang´cannot be ´given´ in any case.

Aaah yes, one can almost rely on that, that your capacity re the destruction-line comes up regularly.
And is mostly needed to go a little deeper…

Sun (outside) is very inviting today.
Will have a little Zen-walk, breathing-in, breathing-out.

Have a nice day, you all here too -

Madhu

MOD:
Please expand on this response when the new thread is up, Madhu.

“Giving satsangs and enlightenment-speak is something that can be learned, a social skill that can be mastered if someone has sufficient interest in doing so.

The truth is that ‘giving satsang’ in the way many people do it today is the easiest thing in the world! Once one has learned some of the Absolute-truth rap (easily available after reading just a few books or articles), a certain basic peacefulness and ease in social settings, and, last but not least, the dialectical questioning ‘manoeuvres’ (e.g. “Who is asking the question?” “Who wants enlightenment?” “Have you traced that thought/feeling back to its source?” “What would you be if you gave up that belief?” etc. etc.) one could “give satsang” easily, endlessly, while half-asleep. It all flows out quite ‘effortlessly’ from the conditioning one sets up in the mind.

And much of it is nothing more than a fancy-looking oneupmanship game by those who’ve mastered a certain kind of ‘social virtuosity’. Those with lots of bravado and chutzpah, little humility and no capacity for self-criticism or self-doubt will do really well at this….”

Do people think that this is true?
Could be a new thread, if people are interested?

MOD:
That “someone” who said this wouldn’t be you by any chance, Frank?
Seems ok for a new thread, yes.

FRANK:
It wasn`t me. Honest, guv!

It was something I copied and pasted off the web.
Can`t remember who or where, now.
Certainly a critic of the satsang scene.

(This quote is from an American article about the same written by someone called Lori Mack. You can find it by keywording “Tribute bands Lori Mack”.

Even though I´m adding my post right beneath some Lotus Flower with encouraging words, you also donated to someone else’s response, I´d say, that there is no guarantee ever that some Lotus will happen (as a kind of
spiritual (-esoteric) reward for enduring atrocities.

Such can be imagined (or even rarely seen) in a much bigger scheme (perspective)…Or not.

You know, I´ve been in deeper exploration about ´Ganga´s previous (thread) stuff, remembering a lot of emotional upheaval and murky and very odd consequences in the Sangha as such, being too immature – all of us – I might say, re a deeper understanding of what is really commune-i-cated therewith (in the 1970 lecture Ganga quoted a few lines, choosing same particles of the stuff again – 50 years later – in a very misunderstandable and quite provocative way to go for an ´advaita-challenging´ (?).

In this New Year´s Chat topic then, which you composed, Lokesh, I second much you´ve said in the very beginning, especially that the only ´freedom´ we might have when encountering atrocities (“shit”) might be working as an ability (to our best temporary capacities) not to get stuck in one of these ‘FIGHT-FLIGHT-FREEZE’ multiple reactions.

And the latter could be sometimes more than we can dissolve or regain in dignity as a response-ability in one life-time span.

But it´s also not less!

In gratitude for an inspiring thread topic.

Madhu

…slowly, breathing out. You are right, not hurry, (low) no pressure…Thanks!

Regarding Pfarrer Anselm Grün, I guess it was Satchit who posted some quotes in German…I followed up with some information, translation and links…I do not know Pfarrer Grün personally.

So, that is not a recommendation, but rather a hint what can be achieved – economically – in an established spiritual life. Quite amazing I find the extent of his works – and his integration of differing paths.

At this time, being in nature is what settles my mind most: greenery, water, rivers, ponds…so if one can spend time in the (any) gardens: wonderful.

I also did by scrolling some of your few years’ contribution-story here. And was quite very amazed about the variety of your life-(sannyas-)stories happening during that time.

Btw, do you know this Christian Priest in the Abbey personnally whom you recommended here?
He is one of those who never got into trouble with the hierarchy and business-wise goes truly with the economic flow. That´s what he studied successfully.

Former friends of mine got landscaping work by landscaping a fabulous Zen Garden in the Abbey.

The Garden is beautiful. The business-mind is not.

Madhu

“The word ‘f__k” is a very versatile word.
It can be used as verb or as a noun.
Both transitive and intransitive….”
(Citation).