Which life are you talking about, Shantam? Surely you have heard your master tell you that enlightenment means being beyond life and death itself?

Plus: How is Dr Amrito possibly to blame for Osho’s ‘death’ ie ‘leaving the body’?

Just having a break from feeding a garden fire. I suppose life is my guru if I do my arithmetic, for she has taught me the most. Also important to remember that a great master is not the one who gathers the most disciples, but rather the one who creates the most masters in their own right.

I also think you have not a clue what you are talking about on an existential level. Book sessions with me? You are dreaming, Madhu. Stick to talking about what you actually know about rather than what you presume. Really, man, you come across like a dottley old busybody.

Well, at least you agree with Arpana. Misery loves company. Poor man only comes out of the box when he is on the attack. It is said that attack is the best form of defence and therefore I can only conclude that his Osho crutch is feeling a bit wobbly.
PS When was the last time anyone came to you for a recommendation about anything? 1972?

In your post of 10.20am today, you speculate that “The most convincing answer I’ve heard to this is that they go where there’s love, ie inside the person/people that truly love them. It seems right, just, true, doesn’t it? Also extremely simple.”

Osho said that when he left his body he would “dissolve into his people.”

However, I guess that actually he knew that he wouldn’t have to do any such thing, as he was already in the hearts of his people. At least in potential.

All perceived distances must surely be only of the mind in the case of an genuine enlightened master.

Whether a ‘disciple’ makes a connection with his presence before he left his body, or after, probably depends on a number of factors, including the particular ‘type’ of that person, and quite possibly a good deal of predetermination.

On glorious day that Ayodhya is finally returned to rightful owners, surely now is the time to ethically cleanse white-skin alcoholic narcissistic drug-dealers enjoying super luxurious surroundings with the financier-in-chief and losing control over own self, and return glorious Pune samadhi to rightful inhabitants who hail from the hallowed and browned bowels of mighty Bhorat!

Certainly, Avatard Godot Chuddies O`Palak in league with Sheela Mitty is dream team to lead us to the light of Osho`s vision!

Yahoo!
Hari Om!

Totally agree, Lokesh. That’s what I meant by “self-delusion”, the perilous effect of imagination, driven by emotional factors. (“But who can really know whether another person loves someone, or how deeply, or how much this professed “love” is entwined with, and perhaps ‘corrupted’ by need, by personal immaturity, giving rise to self-delusion?”).

As I also said, it’s not that the dead guru is actively “working”, the ‘bridge’ is the love (and trust) of the alive person inspired to live the guru’s teachings (according to his/her needs, or “lights”, as the saying goes). Although, of course, to the person it may well feel as if the guru is working on him/her – and he/she might want that to be true.

Beliefs (and their causes) are such powerful factors, but perhaps at one level it doesn’t matter exactly what one believes as long as the results are positive. I’m reminded of an old friend of mine who suffered a ‘nervous breakdown’ at 15 (he was simply terrified of life, largely due to his disturbed mother’s influence) and had to leave school, but who was transformed (and remains so, in ‘normal’ terms) by ‘getting religion’ (X-tianity) a few years later. He was desperate for help – and it arrived.

And Godot Avatara is some person with some light, much narcissism; I mean any Indian guru of our time, including mine and yours and theirs!

If you are a musician, songwriter, painter or poet, for example (or maybe even any `role-model` in any field) you will inevitably be moved by the spirit of the works of these people who, most usually, you have never actually met.

This is being `guided by their spirit`, and in art it is visible, as slavish copying at one end of the spectrum to inspired moving-forward at the other end.

I can perfectly believe that this happens in the spiritual/moral/personal sense with spiritual figures and philosophers. For me, the insistence on the literality of such phenomena is more the problem.

The presence of the living master can be cited as putting a stop to these `imaginative projections` and crunching people into the true reality beyond imaginative delusions etc. If that had really been the case, we would probably have had precious little to talk about on here in the last years!

The thing is, even while still alive, Osho’s disciples were a very mixed bag and even those who were close to him, as in on a personal level, were affected in many different ways; many left, disillusioned in Rajneeshpuram.

Then there is imagination. The ways of the mind are as infinite as grains of sand on a beach. We can imagine anything, including being worked on by a dead guru.

Ultimately, one has to ask one’s self to what end is this work being done on you by a master aiming towards? It is by now established that no guru can actually give you enlightenment. So if that is your goal, forget it. If your contact with a guru, alive or dead, helps you become a more sensitive, humane, loving, meditative, compassionate, creative human being, then I would say continue on the path you are treading.

I personally do not feel the need for a guru in my life anymore. Gurus are a mixed bag at best and when it comes to the best, that is what you take from a guru and forget the rest…and there is nearly always a “rest”.

I find good friends work much in the way that a guru does, in that they supply a needed reflection, perhaps not as clear as someone like Osho, but if you have a few good friends around then they can add up to more than the sum of their parts on that level.

Gurus can also be seen as a crutch. Once you have learned to stand on your own two feet it is stupid to hang on to a crutch, especially when the guru has been the one who helped get you on your feet. Gratitude is due there, not endless devotion.

My generation helped bring eastern ideas into the West. It has been a mixed blessing. People get into Hinduism, gurus etc., with little cultural understanding on the long term. They become eastern Catholics, self-righteous that their god is the real god etc., without any real core experience to back it up.

It is, I see as I write, a highly complex subject, a Pandora’s box. So, I leave it at that. I have nothing to prove. When the shoe fits, put it on and enjoy your walk. The way someone else is walking is none of your business, as long as they are not interfering with you.