Youth and Osho

Here’s the first of a series of articles by Prem Ritvik, a 23 year-old Indian sannyasin who’s recently come across Sannyas News and made his fresh presence felt. (N.B: Apologies for the imperfect lay-out, we’re not totally au fait with how the system works).

Many on the Sannyas News forum have said that 23 is a young age for someone to turn to Sannyas, or to speak as if many lives have been lived. Some even claim that such profiles are fake, as, in their perception, it is impossible to possess a lucid thinking capacity at such a young age.
How could those who happen to be sannyasins of a man who at the age of 21 (Buddha came at 35, Mahavira left home at 30,  Jesus at 33) was at least 6.3 billion years old, and later in life spoke to those crossing the same milestone, to complete the crossing and go beyond enlightenment?
Osho aged infinitely. He aged eternally. Whatever number could be attributed to him was the number of a vehicle he possessed, his body, which followed natural biology.

Youth and Osho are one and same thing. The only condition is the youth we talk of has awakened or is in such a tryst. Osho remained youthful, a youth with age weighing on that of the universe. So alive, vibrant and changing with reality. If one has to write down a character sketch of Osho it is easy to see that age can never be any bar, not only to a seeker, but even to being a master.

The only person who could have aged across the universe before Osho’s physical age is Ashtavakra, if the story of him speaking from his mother’s womb is to be believed. The rest of the others are all possibly young arahats (those who do all for themselves but lack enough compassion to be bodhisattva or buddha) who did not venture out and remained unknown. Practically, as many times pointed out by Osho, if it is sex energy which plays a role in enlightenment, then we have a minimum age of 14.

Many in their old age, especially in the western hemisphere or surroundings influenced by a hedonistic culture (sense gratification) particularly find those in the 20-30 age group disrespectful. The age group is disrespectful, but observe, they are not only disrespectful to only you, they are disrespectful to themselves as well, they bear the pain of the same disrespect too.
The land of death, cremation or burial grounds are always well hidden in cities and shops that first make you insecure about your looks and then buy the the fancy dream they made you dream about. Quoting Osho, “The society does not want you to be wise, because a wise man is a dangerous man to its investments.”.
Wisdom is a rare flowering, but even a hint of the existence of wisdom becomes rare when the whole generation has hand-held dream continuation devices – mobiles.
Positively, wisdom happens, because “after all, as even in the darkest valley, the man is a self-forgotten Buddha, bearing the whole potential of remembrance.” These words would certainly be rejected by most of the population programmed on ambition, but none of the Buddhas created by Osho can overlook them.

Is this not the moment to remember that you are the Buddha and remove this weight of age from your head?

Ask yourself, how long do you plan to carry it? And when you have the answer (as a timespan), discover youth on the day you drop your age.

Youth is a discovery to be made, a Buddha to be lived. There is no youth in those who continue to sleep, except for in their dreams, and not very surprisingly, some might have slept for years in sannyasin clothes, dreaming they have become old enough to reject youth. In any clothes, dream is a dream, and youth awaits outside it.

 

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186 Responses to Youth and Osho

  1. Tan says:

    ?

    MOD:
    What’s the problem, Tan?

    • Tan says:

      I don’t understand, mod. Sorry!

      MOD:
      ALL the article, Tan?

      • satyadeva says:

        I guess Ritvik’s acknowledging that ‘awakening’ is essentially the realisation of ‘the Timeless’ consciousness.

        Dylan’s classic, while not self-consciously ‘spiritual’ in that way (although infused with biblical influences) is a masterpiece of feeling, and well worth its place here, I reckon…
        https://youtu.be/P1fSVbBwVX8

          • satyadeva says:

            Indeed, Arps – but not exactly about ‘eternal youth’ is it?

            Relevant to the topic theme though, as that’s where we’re heading – unless….

        • Arpana says:

          I find this immeasurably uplifting.
          https://youtu.be/AgqGUBP3Cx0

          MOD:
          Could you possibly transfer this to the Caravanserai, please, Arpana, as it’s a bit off-topic really?

        • Tan says:

          Then, SD, what you call consciousness?

          • satyadeva says:

            That which we actually are, and always have been, Tan, behind all appearances of mind, body, thoughts, feelings, ups/downs, love/hate/indifference etc.etc….Being is another term for it…

            Where the masters are coming from…

            Mind you, my own experience is minimal, essentially I’m repeating what others have said, but which seems to me, due to something I can’t properly name (living examples, eg Osho? intuition? intimations from the unconscious?) to have that unmistakable ‘ring of Truth’…

            Maybe all that meditation has something to do with it….

          • Arpana says:

            Tan.

            Consciousness is behind all our senses.

            A bird sings. Our ears hear the bird sing and then maybe we become conscious of the bird singing, but the hearing always happens.

            Welcome back as well. We missed you.

            • satyadeva says:

              Seconded, Arps (both your above comments).

              It’s at one with and is responsible for that incredible intelligence which we fundamentally are. All out of Nothing too, eh?! (As I’ve heard).

              • Tan says:

                Many thanks, SD and Arps, as always, both of you have never disappointed me. It’s great to be back, I really miss Osho and I find him in nearly everybody here. XX

  2. swamishanti says:

    Nice writing Ritvik.

    Adi Shankara, who was considered one of India’s greatest debaters and mystics by some, was said to be only at the tender age of fourteen when he was enlightened, in some accounts.

  3. swamishanti says:

    As soon as the balls have dropped..

    The ultimate explosion.

  4. Prem Ritvik says:

    To all who will feel hurt after reading this, please listen to Osho, who is much more loving and gentle.

    Do not hear him this time, listen to him.

    • kavita says:

      Ritvik,
      Firstly, thank you for this expressive post.

      Also be ready for others to express!

      Wonder if comparisons are ever possible, period.

  5. Shantam prem says:

    Ritvik,
    What is your profession? Your Facebook profile info says you are from Michigan, USA. Have you gone therwe with your efforts as many of the young Indians have gone there on the basis of their tech or medical degrees?

    Age is not a question. I have taken sannyas at 21 and it was not Zeitgeist fashion in my region and religion.
    At 23 I would have written too such an idealist prose under the influence of Osho’s words on young Indian mind.

    When I started speaking like this in the commune, my senior Indian friends mentioned, “You need to pass through the rites of ripeness by passing through upheavals of relations. Maybe then you will stop being a parrot.”

    They were really right. Almost all of them were reading J.Krishnamurti and two-thirds of them got disillusioned by Osho’s people, his commune and his talks.

    I love them still.

    • Prem Ritvik says:

      I am a fake parrot, Shantam.

      Relax.

      • Shantam prem says:

        Read your own comment of 9.04PM.
        How come you got the right to preach? “Don’t listen to Osho this time but hear or don’t hear but listen whatsoever ever.”

        I will be glad if you go to Pune or Delhi and do some meditation groups and fall in love with some Russian or Ukranian.

        Believe me, you will get the best if you show your American passport!

        • Prem Ritvik says:

          Shantam,

          If age is not a matter for you then why did you get haywired when you read in your last discussion that I was 1995 born? You are too much into Heraclitus who said, “One cannot step in the same river twice.” You prove “One cannot kick the same Shantam twice” You change faster than a flowing river.

          On http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/7716
          You appreciate Frank as faceless and here you ask for my Visa? I will not reply to you anymore because I am too afraid you may even ask for urine sample soon enough.

          And you went to these Indian sannyasins for attention, who spoiled you, changed you through their stupid rites of passage drama. And still if you love them you need not tell me that. Are you crazy? What are you telling me?! I can understand if you would have said I love you, but you tell me, “I still love XYZ!” What will I do with that?

          And if I am preaching, you are too crazy to listen to me preach and not Osho.

          Shantam, I cannot send you my urine sample and hence won’t be replying to you anymore.

          @MOD:
          You need to take care of these happenings of repeated identity-asking cases. Identity itself can be a huge risk when revealed on internet.

          MOD:
          Ritvik, you don’t have to reveal anything so that shouldn’t be a problem, should it?
          But don’t worry, we’ll delete any more similar requests.

          • Prem Ritvik says:

            @MOD
            For anybody sincere it can be. Only SN admin must have right to verify identity, and that too in private.

            MOD:
            That’s fine, Ritvik, it’s normal practice here.

      • anand yogi says:

        Hello, friend!
        What is your name?
        What is your native place?
        Coming from?
        What is your good name?
        Qualifications?
        Married or single?
        Father`s name?
        Father`s profession?
        How much one cup tea in your country?

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
          As an esteemed elder and VIP (Village Idiot Punjab) you are certainly the man to tell Ritvik the ultimate truth!

          Which is:
          After shagging few whiteskin gora girls, wasting all money, then when youthful enthusiasm for spiritual fades, all is left is to spend rest of life stranded in wasteland, complaining about failure of religion and relationships, ejaculating all over facebook wall, popping anti-depressants and thrashing self to sleep with some good Japanese zen porn!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Parrot-NO-parrot´ – who cares, Ritvik; there´s a fresh voice to be heard and a complex and deeply inspiring flavour in it.

        And it takes time (for me) to let it sink…
        Anyway, a kind of ‘honeymoon period’ to be enjoyed.
        Obviously for almost everybody!
        Grateful for this. Thanks.

        Madhu

        And a PS for the MODS:
        What does it mean, please, when after the last topic-lines is to be read, “This entry was posted in News. Bookmark the permalink”? (If it’s not too much to answer my question?).

        MOD:
        No idea at all, Madhu! Nothing to worry about though, we’re sure.

  6. Lokesh says:

    Ritvik’s article is well written. I am just not very sure what his point is. Can’t see the forest for the trees. Very passionate – but about what exactly? Young people talking about being ageless…ehm…that is easy. ‘Osho remained youthful.’ I beg to differ. Osho was in certain respects ancient. He wasn’t exactly a triathlete either. So, Ritvik, perhaps you could explain what exactly do you mean by Osho being youthful?

    Then we have the following: “Many in their old age, especially in the western hemisphere or surroundings influenced by a hedonistic culture (sense gratification).”
    Why “especially in the western hemisphere”? Shantam has been coming away with that crap forever on SN, and it no longer cuts the mustard. That kind of statement just does not describe the world we live in today. Western civilization has many aspects that are just as spiritual as the East. That is bullshit coming away with that same old line about the West’s hedonistic culture.

    18 out of the world’s 20 most polluted cities…if that isn’t a product of hedonism what is it? After all, hedonism is a school of thought that argues that the pursuit of pleasure and intrinsic goods are the primary or most important goals of human life. Lot of that happening in the East. Anyone been to Bangkok recently? What a mess. Lots of ‘spiritual’ activities going on, temples, buddha statues, monks ringing bells that go dinging a dong…if you can manage to see them through the smog.

    • Prem Ritvik says:

      Hello Lokesh,

      ‘Osho remained youthful’ is indicated towards his statement, “I change with reality.” From his change of name to whole change of lifestyle, every attempt to disassociate with the past is a sign of his constantly fresh consciousness. I say this consciousness is youthful forever, even as body grows old, it is so fresh for all sorts of changes and challenges, without the burden of memories, resolute and pure in its actions.

      As for the “western society’s” disrespectful part followed by mention of “hedonistic society”, I could have written hedonistic society but first mentioned the root place hedonism has found plenty of support from to grow and supply itself. In East too, hedonism has happened but not so much as there has been little support. It is a characteristic based on at least two things: working senses of body (a young age) and money to spend (wealth). East has been poor and since elders arrange marriages here, it lacked youth for a long while until the laws controlling marriage were tightened to later ages and education made higher in standards.

      The side-effect is more effective technical workers with a salary to spend nowhere. Western business houses sense such a vacuum and move in, this develops a sense gratification opportunity. Somebody is going to go on capitalist while another hedonist. So Bangkok is a hedonistic society in East, with another spiritual extreme toy of spiritualism also available for the mind to play with as it swings like a pendulum between hedonism and spiritualism. The spiritualism of mind has nothing to do with real religion. Even if you find it repeated bullshit, it has a grain of truth in it.

      East has not given hedonistic societies, but it is embracing it from the West.

      My point of writing this article was in relation with sannyasins who wonder about “the future of Neo-Sannyas movement, where it is heading, is it connecting with youth, will it stand on its own, etc?” To stop wasting time on future of movement and wonder about themselves.

      Thinking, “is Neo-Sannyasins movement going to get more youth under its wing or not?” is wrong; rather, if you have been listening to him, you will never grow too old or serious to ask such a question. Leave such a question to waste and focus on yourself. This is my point of writing.

      • kavita says:

        “As for the “western society’s” disrespectful part followed by mention of “hedonistic society”, I could have written hedonistic society but first mentioned the root place hedonism has found plenty of support from to grow and supply itself. In East too, hedonism has happened but not so much as there has been little support.

        It is a characteristic based on at least two things: working senses of body (a young age) and money to spend (wealth). East has been poor and since elders arrange marriages here, it lacked youth for a long while until the laws controlling marriage were tightened to later ages and education made higher in standards.”

        Hedonism is very human, just like any other tendencies, so was very much seen in all parts of the world, only in the East it was probably recorded first. Charvak was the first to mention this, according to researchers. I remember studying this in my university days.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charvaka

        • Prem Ritvik says:

          It is true that hedonism was once as popular – but only for a short time. It was taken out by rival schools at the time of Charvaka, and anyway cannot survive in a country which has caste system, little free will over personal decisions.

          For hedonism to thrive one needs a society with lots of money to spend. Looks like the collective time has arrived only now.

      • swamishanti says:

        I agree with Ritvik that Osho remained `eternally youthful`.
        And he becomes more miraculous to me as time passes by, and I also think what a strange man he actually was, because he read thousands upon thousands of books and even went through periods in his life when he literally slept surrounded by piles of books. What a nutcase.

        Yet he is unusual and magnificent, as he was able to keep his mind fresh and clean, new every day, and it is obvious, by the clarity and light in his eyes and the perpetual radiance and merriness in his beaming Santa Claus face, that he was unburdened by all the knowledge from all of those books. Yet able to store the essentials in his massive computer brain and reproduce them when needed to make a point in a particular talk.

        • Arpana says:

          Far out, Shanti.

        • Prem Ritvik says:

          Have you ever wondered, Swamishanti, when, after you will die, is there anything left? Is there any rebirth or is there nothing? Is your whole life pointless or is there any possibility of any point to be made?

          I do not wonder about Osho, I wonder about my own temporary-ness.

          Just like in circus one may handle four swords simultaneously, to viewers’ amazement and entertainment, Osho handled all these books for listeners’ amazement and entertainment.

          Memory is a function which is subject to voluntary use. Fragments can be accessed and information presented. But what’s the point if all was so temporary? And there the silence comes in.

          You have heard the books, but have you heard the silence of your voice on Sannyas News after you will die? What happened to Parmatha? Why is there such silence? You and I have same fate, our comment sections one day will be blank. I wonder about my ordinariness, when Nature has taken such measures to have all of us so ordinary and perishable.

          Forget about Osho, you will not be here one day to type anything. Wonder about yourself.

          • satyadeva says:

            Good one, Ritvik.

          • Prem Ritvik says:

            I have not known Parmatha but I read his comments on other articles. His Silence is most audible on Sannyas News since only he had the mind of an editor.

            Observe the Silence, expose yourself to death, and slowly, Osho the nutcase will disappear and you will encounter Osho the immortal.

            As for energy, beware of it. Much time ago people started these energy talks about once walking incarnations and then they formed stupid traditions around them. I am not saying that it can be totally invalidated, but one can go for something with better quality if it was based on experience rather than belief.

            Exposing oneself to death and the rise of genuine misery inside is much more effective and simple. Energy field may be real or just an illusion, but your death and another audible Silence spreading on SN, is that not certain?

    • Arpana says:

      Did not Osho once say he taught hedonism with meditation?

      And sure enough…

      ”Jesus says: NO MAN PUTTETH A PIECE OF NEW CLOTH UNTO AN OLD GARMENT. The traditions are old, like old garments. Celebration is always new, it is never old. It is herenow. Religions which are dead go on fasting, they are ascetic. Religions which are new — they are celebrating, they have a type of spiritual hedonism around them.

      Have you read Kazantzakis’ ZORBA THE GREEK: Read it! Jesus must have had something of the quality of Zorba the Greek — a tremendous capacity to enjoy life, an infinite trust in life, a deep attunement with the present. Kazantzakis’ novel, ZORBA THE GREEK, has some of the quality of Jesus in it.

      Of course, the Pope in the Vatican will be very much offended if he comes to know that I say Jesus has the quality of Zorba the Greek. But I say it. He has; I can’t help it. A spiritual hedonism.

      Allow me to coin the hedonism’, because ordinarily you think of hedonism as very earthy. “Eat, drink, be merry” — that is earthy hedonism. In spiritual hedonism that is there, and more also. “Eat, drink, be merry” is there — plus God. Eat, drink and be merry in the name of the holy, in the name of your God, your Father who is in heaven.

      Eat, drink, be merry — make them your prayer. Let your eating and drinking and merrying be a sort of ritual, a sort of prayer — a gesture of happiness that “I am okay, and I am happy that you have given birth to me. I am happy that I am, and my whole thankfulness goes to you.”

      A spiritual hedonism is always there when religion is alive. When the religion becomes dead, hedonism disappears completely and the religion becomes antagonistic to everything that man can enjoy.
      Then religion goes on seeking ways and means of how to be sad, how to be more and more sorrowful, how to kill all avenues of delight and joy. Then it becomes ascetic.”

      Osho
      Come Follow Me, Vol 2
      Chapter 1
      Chapter title: When The Bridegroom Shall Be Taken Away

      • frank says:

        Ritvik,
        Your obvious distaste for “sense gratification” and “hedonism” is very much part of that crappy old world that will stop you from even becoming human, never mind ‘spiritual’.

        You say: “My point of writing this article was in relation with sannyasins who wonder about “the future of Neo-Sannyas movement, where it is heading, is it connecting with youth, will it stand on its own, etc?” To stop wasting time on future of movement and wonder about themselves.
        Thinking, “is Neo-Sannyasins movement going to get more youth under its wing or not?” is wrong; rather, if you have been listening to him, you will never grow too old or serious to ask such a question. Leave such a question to waste and focus on yourself.”

        On that point, I would say you are right.

        It seems some of the self-styled ‘elders’ (trans: has-beens) could learn from the ‘wisdom of youth’.

        • Arpana says:

          Not smoking and drinking and doing drugs, because one doesn’t want to, particularly after years of doing so, is different to not doing so because we shouldn’t, because to do so is morally wrong.

      • Prem Ritvik says:

        Hello Arpana,
        Osho mentions “eat, drink, be merry plus God, be thankful.”
        How much of that do we see?

        Mostly it’s all flashy lights in the night at a club which drives the biological animal we are to express repressed emotions during the day, plus alcohol. I would not call it hedonism if it was the hedonism you have mentioned. What happens in clubs, which are gifts of West to East, is that sense gratification to unawareness.

        • Arpana says:

          @Prem Ritvik. 8 April, 2019 at 3:24 pm.

          I haven’t been in a nightclub for thirty years, a pub for about the same amount of time; both times I was sober, and not stoned. And I hadn’t been drunk or stoned, in or out of nightclubs for ten years before, a choice I made, because all that went with drink and drugs wasn’t for me any more, so I am probably not the right guy for you to lecture in this way.

          Not smoking and drinking and doing drugs, because one doesn’t want to, particularly after years of doing so, is different to not doing so because we shouldn’t, or because to do so is morally wrong, or because you have made the decision based on observing the behaviour of others.

          • Prem Ritvik says:

            You are too much in the boat.
            Therefore you will be lectured even when I don’t intend to.

            • Prem Ritvik says:

              Best thing to do is to ignore me.

              • anand yogi says:

                Perfectly correct, Ritvik!

                There is little point in lecturing depraved baboons such as Arpana whose idea of Sannyas has been seeking nothing but the titillation and titivation of titty-bars and nightclubs where people drink alcohol, girls are taken over by sinful lust and get their tits out and experience lower consciousness, in contrast to the soaring consciousness of one great meditator such as you who has not even got his willy wet yet!

                You are right to be impressed by the Hare Krishnas and their admirable restraint in matters of sense-gratification!

                The stories of them being prosecuted for abuse, sodomising and systematically abusing children in countries all over the world are generated by the western mind that seeks to stop the enlightenment of sincere seekers such as you!

                ISKCON themselves have never instigated any such proceedings and continue to protect high-ranking abusers! This is the way of true devotion as you yourself have found in Mathura!

                Swami Bhorat urges that you plunge into the Hare Krishna world of non-sense gratification and offer up your firm young buttocks to the cause of higher consciousness!

                Yahoo!
                Hari Om!
                Hare Krishna!
                Bend Over!

                • Prem Ritvik says:

                  I appreciate how you respond, Anand Yogi, it’s very enjoyable, since so absurdly you point to your point.
                  I love absurd comedy.
                  But since you are just having fun, I would share with you:

                  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uwybHcVPi20

                • Prem Ritvik says:

                  However, I cannot have a dialogue with you since you are not interested.

                  But your absurdism is really enjoyable.

                • anand yogi says:

                  Perfectly correct, Ritvik!

                  In true path of Bhakti Yoga that has served mighty Bhorat for 5000 years and is still upheld by sattvic skinheads of Hare Krishna movement (despite influx of western bonobo baboons indulging in sense gratification and shagging everything that moves), there is no possibility of dialogue!

                  Young aspirant must kneel before master, keep silent and not speak with mouth full!

                  Yahoo!
                  Hare Krishna!

        • Arpana says:

          @Prem Ritvik 8 April, 2019 at 3:24 pm

          By the way, Osho on a number of occasions said he wanted his people to get enlightened in the disco, and he wasn’t referring to the sannyas disco, but out in the marketplace, or to get enlightened in the pub.

          • satyadeva says:

            And how much experience did Osho have of ‘marketplace’ discos and pubs? Forget a few minutes’ guest appearance at the Ranch disco, that’s an environmentally different thing altogether. Which is demonstrated by that ridiculous remark.

            That’s an instance of one inevitable ‘failing’ he had, or rather, where he was a bit deficient, ie a lack of personal experience of the practical contemporary situations of many of his people, specifically those of the West.

            All those books (and films) helped, of course, as did his interactions with his inner circle and meeting people up close in darshans, but, ‘superconsciousness’ notwithstanding, you can’t replicate direct experience, whether it’s of nightclubs, high street discos and pubs, or marriage and bringing up children, for example.

            • Arpana says:

              Seriously, SD. Duh!!!!!.
              In another life. Sheesh!!!!!

              • satyadeva says:

                Meaning what, Arps?

                We’re informed (by Osho) that his ‘last life’ was 700 years ago in Tibet. A rather different situation to today’s world!

                No, as he did on many occasions, he was saying something “for entertainment only”, or at best to help us somehow associate these places with meditation, awareness, etc. rather than going robotically unconscious as per how it usually goes.

                Let’s not idealise him as ‘the man who knows everything’, because he can’t really if he hasn’t lived it. Except on an empathetic/imaginative/intellectual level.

                Show me someone who claims to have reached ‘enlightenment’ in an average city disco or pub and I’ll show you a fraud!

                • Arpana says:

                  SD,
                  On reading my original post to Ritvik, it sounded terser than I had intended, so I added the other comment as a throwaway, as an ameliorative.

                  My remark to your remark was an attempt to pour water on what appeared to be on the point of turning into a raging bush fire, sweeping all before it, me included; cos you know what you’re like when you get the bit between your teeth.

                  I ‘umbly apologise for my transgressions.

                • frank says:

                  Recent discoveries have shown that Tibet was not quite how people imagined it.
                  Take, for example, this poem by the 11th Dalai Lama, recently discovered in ‘Terma’ (spiritual time capsule) that was dug up last year in the high Himalayas:

                  Memories of a Tibetan Boozist

                  Ah, yes. Nobby Norbu, he of the toothless grin,
                  and the rest of the Tibetan Boozist lads:
                  Rocky Rinpoche, Chogyam Drunkpa, Georgie Djorjeff,
                  Lobsang Rampage, Big Tashi, the Delboy Lama,
                  Chopper Tensin, Captain Haddock and Madame Blavatsky.
                  They were all there.

                  I spent many a lost weekend with those guys
                  in the temples, chang shops, bhang shops,
                  opium dens and kebab shops
                  in the streets behind the Potala
                  searching for the ultimate medicine.

                  ‘The Bardo` on Nirvana Road was a favourite haunt.
                  You needed your wits about you in there:
                  A lot of seriously dodgy and scary-looking characters hanging about.
                  We had some pretty amazing seshuns and pujas there
                  and we would invariably end up in a stupa,
                  spending a lot of hours on the mat
                  completely out of our minds.
                  Om mani padme rum.
                  Happy daze!

                  Nobby had some pretty amazing siddhis
                  that he had honed from his years of meditation high in the Himalayas.
                  He could spend hours out in the freezing cold
                  wearing nothing but a wet blanket
                  and smashing empty bottles of chang over his head to keep warm.
                  On the way home from the Potala gin palace
                  and other venues in the lower astral,
                  Georgie Djorjeff would kill a yak or two with his mental energy,
                  which was pretty handy
                  as by that time we were all feeling pretty peckish.

                  It seems like a past life now….

    • Shantam prem says:

      Lokesh, you need some new window maker, some new inspiring Bhagwan Or Papa ji. Somewhere something is stuck. I say this to you only because I know what it means to be stuck.

      About others on this site, I won’t say because I don’t know them and hopefully never will know them.

      • Lokesh says:

        Shantam, you really have no idea what you are talking about. And I certainly do not need some new inspiring Bhagwan or Papa ji. For the most part, the only time I think of those guys is when I write on SN. I am not really interested in gurus very much these days. So, your idea that I am somehow stuck because of hanging on to dead gurus is a complete fantasy.

        Yes, there are times in my life when I do feel stuck. I think we all experience periods like that. That is life. You need to feel stuck from time to time to add colour to when you go with the flow and vice versa. I have spent plenty of time with wise guys, but in the end, life is what it is and if it is not going smoothly I just go with that and live it.

        This whole trip about saviours saving you from life’s hard times and humdrum realities is bullshit. Floating in an eternal cloud of bliss…how boring. Give me life with all its ups and downs any day of the yuga.

  7. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    Thanks for your sharing, Prem Ritvik.

    I was reflecting on your words about youth and Buddhahood.
    If there can be enlightened ones, compassionate and loving or detached to the point of cynicism, then there can be young, anguished and dark guys (emo?) who meditate on suicide, perhaps the same thirst for liberation from death, through death.

    If it were true that consciousness has its own algorithms, working both in the little enthusiastic youth of a weirdo and in the gracious life of the elder Master, would resistance to such determinism be a symptom of Buddhahood or self-defence of the ego?

    • Prem Ritvik says:

      Hello Veet,

      Meditation on suicide is rare, mostly there is a contemplation by mind directed towards its escape from the natural, which is death. The only meaningful such meditation is done by Jainas (and is still rare at present, I very much suspect them in present age). Also it is something to be remembered from Osho’s past lives, in the last one he was doing the same, but was killed three days prior to leaving his body) and involves leaving your body over a span of 40 days.

      Nietzsche says that thought of suicide helps one pass many a dark night. The thought actually prevents the act (very few, and very courageous can fight with natural tendency of life to survive and kill themselves, ordinary people can’t). And on a dark night, one does not contemplate over it because of inevitable meaninglessness but because it’s too much suffering.

      On a beautiful morning, one can meditate, for even this beautiful morning is meaningless, and relax into leaving the body. But the Jainas who leave their bodies like this would never have the sleep-deprived look of a being who killed himself on a dark night. They will have a relaxed body left behind them.

      If you are hungry, then you can liberate yourself from hunger by eating, from thirst by drinking. Then if you were to be liberated from death, how could it be by dying? It could be done by living life to the fullest, and this alone is the game of Sannyas.

      It is impossible for consciousness to have algorithms. It is just the realisation of its own self. The body is inclined to work in a certain way, for which one can be thankful to Nature, for its own survival. Natural algorithms controlled by hormones can make you want to eat food, have sex, etc., and this pattern is set for the body. The point you witness something unchanging, you have begun to catch consciousness itself.

      It is very simple to ask that: Veet who eats and sleeps and does other things has grown up through long years, but yet who is Veet? The body is following its algorithm from daily activities into old age, but who is this unchanging with capacity to witness all these experiences?

      So natural algorithms are based on body of being, can be witnessed by your consciousness, but are not a part of it. The algorithms will go on changing, but if you get mentally attached to one extreme algorithm in your puberty then you will get your hair dyed pink, well into your 80s, and think you are cool. Anybody graceful, whether master or not, has their mental age in conjugation with the physical age of their body.

      If consciousness had its own algorithms, witnessing had its own algorithms (!!!) then we would not be conscious at all, but robots. They only have algorithms!

      And grace is a side-effect of Krishnahood. If you observe him (as he does not run away, and constantly faces all situations) grace is easier to understand than Buddha, because in him grace attains its full dance in many dimensions! He is stealing butter as a child, with girls at a young age and handling diplomatic disputes without tension post-30 or so. Since the action is natural and there is constant change, no attachment to any extreme, all passes through without clinging, you will notice that his grace is a natural side-effect of mental and physical age matching each other and not anything forced!

  8. anandrahul says:

    Prem Ritvik quoting Osho: “The society does not want you to be wise, because a wise man is a dangerous man to its investments.”

    So, Ritvik, did you become so wise at this tender age in spite of the society’s deliberate effort to stop you or is this widom result of your resonance with OSHO BUDDHA ASTHAVAKRA?

  9. anandrahul says:

    Today I am feeling very ashamed being part of a society who resists someone getting enlightened.

    Prem Ritvik, will you ever be able to forgive, else I may die from drowning in a handful of water, as they say in Hindi (‘chullu that paani mein soon maro’)?

  10. kavita says:

    Ritvik, ‘Meetings With Remarkable Men’ – this is the modern day global Upanishad in a film format. I saw this in my early sannyas days in the Poona Commune.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7X9zDtsiG0&list=PLobWh_6QAzW-gLK4XkxILDxNZWkxEIlRP

  11. kavita says:

    PR,
    Just sharing, nearly all of us on SN have come in contact with Osho in our early 20s, so that is not special in the worldwide Osho Sangha.

  12. Shantam prem says:

    For any master the most difficult task will be to work on those who are full with Osho words. On theory level these people know much too much.

    This post of mine written at Facebook is created by looking at the words of faceless characters of sannyasnews.

    Just ordinary people walking on the road and going for work look more healthy and wholesome and trustful about others and life in general.

  13. anandrahul says:

    “So natural algorithms are based on body of being, can be witnessed by your consciousness, but are not a part of it. The algorithms will go on changing, but if you get mentally attached to one extreme algorithm in your puberty then you will get your hair dyed pink, well into your 80s, and think you are cool. Anybody graceful, whether master or not, has their mental age in conjugation with the physical age of their body.

    If consciousness had its own algorithms, witnessing had its own algorithms (!!!) then we would not be conscious at all, but robots. They only have algorithms!

    And grace is a side-effect of Krishnahood.”

    This morning is so divine that we all at sannyasnews have woken up to new algorithms of consciousness and witness.

    This new article by Premium Ritvik should definitely find a place in Archives section of Sannyas Wiki page.

  14. anandrahul says:

    My kundalini just got awakened after reading the divine discourses.

    • anand yogi says:

      Perfectly correct, Ritvik!
      It is certainly a rare occurence that the trumpet-blast of wisdom of mighty Bhorat issues so freely from the bowels of one so young!

      The depraved westerners who are obsessed with the endless titillation of their genital organs, sense pleasure, hedonism and dyeing their hair pink to look cool have exported their perversions to India where, away from the influence of western baboons, people`s minds were focused by true religion, on higher subjects such as increasing population to 1.2 billion!

      Their revolting obsession with sense gratification has now influenced the glorious traditions of East so homosexuals are allowed to exist and also women go out after dark, giving highly spiritual religious men no option other to harass and rape them!

      It is certainly Kali yuga!

      Hopefully, the wise words of a committed master debater such as yourself will trigger a new generation of pure spiritual meditators who avoid all sense-gratification, pleasure and hedonistic perversions of twisted West!
      We will make India great again and usher in a new era of desi-brahmachari-superconsciousness that can last a thousand yugas!

      Hari Om!

  15. kavita says:

    If you are hungry, then you can liberate yourself from hunger by eating, from thirst by drinking. Then if you were to be liberated from death, how could it be by dying? It could be done by living life to the fullest, and this alone is the game of Sannyas.”

    Seven runs in one over (that’s a sixer on a no ball), PR!

    MOD:
    Kavita, you’ve made two extremely grave errors here:
    You don’t get one run for a no ball if you hit a six!
    And there are six balls in an over, not one

    Homework: Revise the Laws of Cricket!

    • anand yogi says:

      Perfectly correct, Ritvik!

      If you are hungry, then you can liberate yourself from hunger by eating, from thirst by drinking. To be liberated from lust it is necessary to whip out 5-incher and live life to the full!

      Hari Om!
      Get it on!

    • kavita says:

      Agree, MOD. about one error: I should have written “one ball” instead of “one ovcr”. But about seven runs, I had researched before posting.

      “A six is considered to be the most fruitful shot in cricket. At times, commentators and writers even use the word ‘maximum’ for it. In case it’s a no ball the number can be extended to seven.”

      Ref – https://www.quora.com/Can-a-batsman-take-more-than-6-runs-by-running

      MOD:
      I do believe you’re right, Kavita (which I half-suspected when I contradicted you earlier). I’ll definitively check later with a friend who’s bound to know.

      • satyadeva says:

        Yes, you’re right, Kavita.

        Although my expert cricket watching friend says, rather surprisingly, that if there’s just one run to win a match and it’s a no-ball and the batsman hits a six – only the one additional run for the no-ball is credited.

        So, loosely speaking (and to save my face) we’re both right (although you’re a lot ‘righter’ than me!).

    • Prem Ritvik says:

      If Kavita says, it must be so.
      Let Satya be sacrificed this time for Prem.

      • kavita says:

        @ PR
        No, dear, Kavita/anyone is not always right, there should be space for doubt.

        SD, do let us know, after you check with your friend; Quora can’t be always blindly trusted.

  16. Shantam prem says:

    Indian nationlism and pride on everything Indian is installed in the minds by right-wing Hindu political party in power. It is being supported by the Gujrati Hindus spread all around the world earnjng much more than the natives. These people will never go back to homeland for living because toilet papers are not robust and are too expensive.

    As a fair observer of life it is quite satisfying for me to see less and less foreigners looking for Indian spiritual daddies.

    Indians talk too much religion which they themselves forget. Aquarius Age means try to walk your talk.

    Anyway, sannyasnews westerners are mental cross-breed: TransSpirituals!

  17. Lokesh says:

    Ritvik declares, ‘‘Osho remained youthful’ is indicated towards his statement, “I change with reality.” From his change of name to whole change of lifestyle, every attempt to disassociate with the past is a sign of his constantly fresh consciousness.
    Sounds like a keyhole take on Osho’s life. Osho claimed to be unsentimental, yet if you read his books there was often a certain sentimentality in his words. In particular books like Glimpses of a Golden Childhood show that Osho cherished his past rather than disassociated from it.
    Ratvik, I suspect that you are putting Osho up on a pedestal and creating your very own personal Osho. Easy to do when he is dead. Had you been able to talk to him while alive he would not have let you get away with projecting fantasies onto him. Better find a half decent living master to help steer you in the right direction as opposed to a perfect dead one.

      • Lokesh says:

        I have better things to do with my time. I would never suggest to anyone that I would play such a role. And, believe me, it is a role.

        • Prem Ritvik says:

          Lokesh,
          You try so hard to disagree with me in your first comment, “Ritvik’s article is well written” with such defence. And then, when I have a suitable answer, you scroll back up whole article and find the some other fault. Then you pose an advice to me to find some master, and when I agree and surrender you tell me you have better things to do!

          Actually you are right in refusing me since you must have seen you are not even half-decent. The only better thing that you have to do is to try and criticise me.

          Stop giving me advice which is beyond your own ability! At least respect yourself.

          • Lokesh says:

            Ritvik, I do not for a moment believe that you are as smart as you believe yourself to be. You come away with all your lofty talk and it does not fool me for a moment.

            Life is the real guru and it will show you where you are at. Enjoy your smug little ego-trip while it lasts…not long…here today, gone tomorrow. Dust in the wind.

            • Prem Ritvik says:

              If Life is the real guru why have you taken Sannyas? Or is Sannyas just a dream and you are not a sannyasin at all?

              First you tell me to seek a master and now you tell me to enjoy an ego trip?

              You are also in Heraclitus too much.

              • Lokesh says:

                Ritvik, I will answer your questions.

                “If Life is the real guru, why have you taken Sannyas?!
                I took sannyas 45 years ago. Round about the age you are now. I needed help and guidance. Osho most generously supplied those things, and a whole lot more I had not reckoned on..

                “Is Sannyas just a dream and you are not a sannyasin at all?”
                To answer that I will need to hear from you what you think being a sannyasin means, a clear definition. Ultimately, everything is a dream. I have been told that the only thing that is real in the dream is love. I like to believe that.

                “First you tell me to seek a master and now you tell me to enjoy an ego trip?”
                Yes. It sounds contradictory, but life functions like that, a mass of contradictions await you every corner you turn. You will need to realise that it is not enough talking the talk without walking the walk. You will not seek help unless you realise you need it. Nobody does.

                You will have to realise that your ego trip is an exercise in futility and leads only to frustration. Seeing as how that is where you are, you might as well enjoy it. The destination is always here, the road that leads to it long and winding. Why not take enjoyment from traversing life’s twists and turns, knowing in your heart that overcoming obstacles will make you wiser and, who knows, a little less egotistic.

                • Prem Ritvik says:

                  Lokesh,
                  Why is it very difficult to have a 23 year-old on Sannyas News without pelting stones at him, and easy to follow someone who claimed enlightenment at 21?

                  You did not sincerely ask me the question. You went to conclude to me,”Better find a half-decent living master to help steer you in the right direction as opposed to a perfect dead one.” When you could not dive into the depth of the statement of my article, you, as per your level of intelligence, told me that I have made a personal Osho, whereas I have indicated towards the freshness of this consciousness he has.

                  Now you tell me you took Sannyas 45 years ago. If I had come a year later here, you would have told me, “I took it 46 years ago.” The first thing you wrote in your answer is the weight of your sannyas you are carrying on your head and increasing it every year. I know it is the weight, since I did not even ask you and some of it fell. Now you must be beyond sixty.

                  The whole point of my article is that a normal man might be unenlightened, because he carries the weight of his age, but a sannyasin had the potential of being doubly unenlightened as the ego can gather double the dust apart from being senior and that is of being an elder sannyasin. Meditation is not a quantitative phenomenon, it is qualitative. You have collected so much of it in quantity, that if the quantity was effective, you could have been master to two Osho’s, each aged 21.

                  If you needed help and guidance from a guru, and you are so skilled to tell me the same, then how could you find better things to do? You are a miracle worker, better than Osho. Osho used to advise and stay along, even going to jail, you give advice and straightaway have better things to do. Now this is a miracle because you have been close to Osho and still are able to do this, which Osho could not have done. You have protected yourself well from him. And after that, you say, “I would never suggest to anyone I would play such a role. Believe me, it’s a role.”

                  So first you had no time and then you eliminate the possibility altogether even if you had time. And I do not believe you. Master is a natural position which results out of compassion, which you lack here and therefore cannot even understand. You are not even good at criticism.

                  Instead of responding to what you have heard from somewhere, I want to tell you that the contradiction of your life is your double unenlightenment after being close to an enlightened master.

                • Prem Ritvik says:

                  The hurt that you will feel after reading this is that of ego.
                  And if you will continue in the same way, you have let it win again.

                • Lokesh says:

                  ‘The hurt that you will feel after reading this is that of ego.’
                  Oh, gimme a break from this cornball crap, Ritvik. All this ego nonsense went out the window with bell-bottoms and vinyl. You obviously think too much. You talk about ego, but who the fuck do you think it is that’s talking through you? You think you are a channel for higher consciousness or what?

                  You are the new kid on the block right now, but do not expect to be handled with kid gloves on SN. Ritvik, we have heard all of your holy joe stuff a thousand times before. It does not cut the mustard, man.

                  You talk about Osho, but it is only talk. He was dead before you were born. Sorry about that, just the way the chappati crumbles. All you know about Osho is what you have picked up from books and vids…it’s all in your head, man.

                  Those aren’t rocks I am pelting you with…those are ice lollies with bunny faces. I know you mean well. Thing is, SN is not about trying to prove how enlightened you are. Nobody will go in for that junk here. SN is about debate, criticism, having fun and who knows, maybe provoking the divine in each other. Most popular guy round here is Yogi. Why? Because he is funny, intelligent and witty. Maybe you could learn something from him.

                  Ritvik, you take yourself far too seriously. Your problem you will face on SN is that nobody round here will take you seriously at all. You talk about how old you are. ’23′. Big fuckin’ deal. I am 67. So fuckin’ what? You think I am gonna write a boo hoo along the lines of ‘Why is it very difficult to have a 67 year-old on Sannyas News without pelting lolly pops at him?’

                  You ask me, Ritvik, I think you are full of shit. It might be holy shit but it still smells like shit. And remember, the hurt that you will feel after reading this is that of ego. Really man, what a wally.

                • Prem Ritvik says:

                  I agree that I look too serious.

                  You have protected your ego again.

                  As for the channelling part, people channel one Osho and deliver messages, I channel two of them together.

                  And on Visa requests I channel fake parrots.

                • Prem Ritvik says:

                  Whatever you have spoken about me about being serious, I accept.

                  I also see that you can see what I mean when you say “I know you mean well”.

                  I agree that my ego tricks me too, whenever it appears.

                  You have served me a mirror, in which I can see the ugliness which appears now and then due to my extremely logical approach.

                  For that I am thankful.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Hi Ritvik,

                  The ways of the mind are as numerous as grains of sand on a beach.
                  If I were to take your words as being sincere then I would say your comment is the most sincere you have written yet. An honest and candid confession that takes intelligence to produce.

                  On the other hand, your comment could be the product of a devious mind and in fact be some kind of mind game.

                  Nothing can replace one-on-one contact on the human level. Words are only on the surface. With actual human contact we rely on all sorts of signals to figure out what is really taking place and even then we can be wrong.

                  I might add that the same goes for Osho. If you never actually sat down with the man, had a wee chat, listened to his wise counsel and, most importantly, felt his vibes directly due to his attention being focused on you as a unique individual, there is no way on earth that you can fully appreciate what a benign, playful, compassionate and truly marvellous fellow he was. This is something I have said repeatedly on SN, because I believe it is an important point.

                  That said, I give you the benefit of the doubt and take your comment as sincere and heartfelt. Hats off to you, man. Welcome to the club.

                • Prem Ritvik says:

                  Thanks, Lokesh, for finding out something which I spoke about in one of the comments in my first article. The total absense of body language when one writes.

                  Of Osho I can say he has been total enough, I can feel him, without meeting him, though meeting him is way more total than feeling through other mediums.

                  In the comments as our boats collided, I can assure you if you would have gone by facts I would have taken over in the debate and won, but you spoke about something beyond facts, that is of quality – seriousness. That is not of facts, but of being. The mirrors do not debate, do they? They reflect. You gave me such a golden chance to accept.

                  Now I am not serious anymore, so we shall play!

            • Lokesh says:

              Jolly good, carry on up the Khyber.

  18. satchit says:

    Perfectly true, Ritvik.

    Freshness is a quality of no-mind, not dependent on age.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4UoJ47SzjA

    • anand yogi says:

      Perfectly correct, Satchit!

      It is perfectly correct that you have started to parrot even Anand Yogi perfectly!

      Swami Bhorat sends his blessings and sends loving reminder that parrot is most spiritual of animals!

      Yahoo!
      Hari Om!
      Squawk!

      • satchit says:

        Beloved Anal Yogi,

        Swami Bhorat told me you have no copyright on perfection. There are even rumours that your role as chief-disciple is on stake because of too much pride.

        So better do your daily gacchamis and surrender to Ultimate Truth!

        Om Shanti Om!
        Hare Krishna!

        Yahoo!

        • Arpana says:

          Scratchit has grasped a fundamental of British humour.

          • anand yogi says:

            Perfectly correct, Arpana!
            It is certainly a great day in the history of consciousness!

            Swami Bhorat declares that it is a miracle on a par with your Jesus:
            “He maketh the lame to walk, the blind to see and the German to crack jokes!”

            Yahoo!
            Hare Om!
            Jus` like that!

          • satchit says:

            Now, Arpanski, what is the fundamental of British humour? Mister Bean?

            • Arpana says:

              I am not a fan of ‘Mr Bean’ at all, but Rowan Atkinson in ‘Black Adder’, especially the last 3 series, who Anal Yogi has so obviously been influenced by, is very British humour. (Humour doesn’t always travel, does it?).

      • frank says:

        Forever Young
        (with apologies to Bob Zimmerframe)

        May you keep hold of your marbles
        May all your dreams come true
        May your incontinence pants remain firm
        when the winds of change blow around you.
        May your stairlift reach up to the stars
        and as you clank on every rung
        May you stay
        Forever young….

        • kavita says:

          May SN always have freshness
          and SNers & their readers
          always be joyful.
          May SN always have the funds
          to restore their website.
          May Paritosh’s, Dharmen’s & Parmartha’s effortless efforts
          be enjoyed by all
          who come across SN
          for eternity.

  19. shantam prem says:

    “Better find a half-decent living master to help steer you in the right direction as opposed to a perfect dead one.”
    Psychologists are giving alarming signs. Men and women are getting too much occupied with porn images and reality of love is getting distorted.
    Women sex toys are doing brisk business.

    Sex and spirituality brain points are neighbouring each other.
    “Half-decent living master is much better than perfect dead one” – such sincere advice can come only from sannyasnews elders!

  20. Jivan Alok says:

    I cannot recall Youth as a special treasure Osho talked a lot about. What Osho valued greatly was Innocence, which has little, if anything, to do with age. We are born innocent, then get somewhat knowledgeable and identified with a personal mask to say we are not ignorant.

    Wisdon to become innocent again, to bring back the openness of a beginner’s mind, is worth a great deal, isn’t it?

    Prem Ritvik speaks like a knowledgeable man for his mere 23. At his age, I wasn’t half that clever, and I’m glad, nonetheless.

    • Lokesh says:

      Alok, right on the money, man.

    • kavita says:

      Jivan Alok, how old are you now, if it’s ok with you to share here?

      Btw, why compare when there possibly can’t be any comparisons?

      Most of us don’t have the experience at that age but then the times were different for us (as it has been for all older generations of the past). Mostly the youth is exposed according to the age they are born into.

      I am sure most of us are glad for where one is, even the clever ones, I am sure!

      • Jivan Alok says:

        Kavita, no comparison at all.

        Age and maturity are not aligned. You don’t have to be old to be wise, and vice versa. But youth is powerful.
        How was I using my vast energy of youth? With hindsight, at my 47 I realise myriads of “should’ves” and “could’ves”.

        The wisest thing is to stop feeling sorry, because energy can be restored to an extent after youth, and youth is gone forever, so at least I can laugh at my thoughtless “wasted” years.

    • Arpana says:

      Youth isn’t innocent, or maybe you were.
      We were naive and knowing, and then increasingly knowing; but we also meant well and were idealistic, naively so.

      I look back on my youth and the friends of my youth, the young people who rattled my youthful cage, with great affection, some chagrin, such a welter of different feelings, along with, mostly, yes saying. Heaven and hell. ✌(-‿-)✌

  21. Shantam prem says:

    I have not seen or heard of a single western youth singing, “Oh, Lala, Youth and Osho!”

    A few Indian and Nepali youth surely have gone full with opium talks.

  22. Shantam prem says:

    “Mooji and Youth” is a small reality.
    Whenever I see photos from Rishikesh it feels warm and cuddling energy as one sees photos of Bhagwan in India.

    In a way, Bhagwan became victim of his disciples’ ambition.
    Is he really like “Jesus Crucified Again” and resurrected at YouTube?

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam declares, “In a way, Bhagwan became victim of his disciples’ ambition.”
      Unadulterated bullshit. One could say that Bhagwan became a victim of his own ambition, because in many instances it certainly looked like that. But that would not be true either, because Osho was not ambitious on any level that would have made him a victim.

      In fact, I would go so far as to say that ambition did not rank at all in his life. He kind of played along with what happened while rarely leaving the back seat, content to watch life unfold in front of him, coming to take the front seat only while holding darshan and giving lectures, as his heart dictated.

      • Arpana says:

        ”He kind of played along with what happened while rarely leaving the back seat, content to watch life unfold in front of him, coming to take the front seat only while holding darshan and giving lectures, as his heart dictated.”

        You’ve excelled yourself.
        Almost aphoristic.

      • satchit says:

        Nice myth, Loco, that Osho had no ambition.

        Even in India, ambition is needed to become a Professor of Philosophy.

        • Lokesh says:

          Satchit declares, “Even in India, ambition is needed to become a Professor of Philosophy.”

          Satchit, you do not know that in regards to Osho. I suspect he was a born philosopher, even though he said he was not a philosopher at all. And he just naturally became a professor of the subject without ambition having anything to do with the process.

          • satchit says:

            Sounds as a good story for the disciples for me, Lokesh.

            He started his education 1951.
            1960 he was professor. One has to pass this exam or that one. For this, ambition is needed. Things don’t happen by themselves. At least this is my experience.

            • satyadeva says:

              Yes, Satchit, but you’re not “The Blessed One”, are you?!!

              Or are you?

              • satchit says:

                Yes, SD, I am “The Blessed One”.

                Blessed to be alive on this earth.

                You, not?
                Or have you forgotten?

                • satyadeva says:

                  Very goooood, Satchit…

                  However, there are true “Blessed Ones” and common-or-garden ‘self-blessed ones’…

                  And I’d bet good money on which category you fit into, mein herr.

                • satchit says:

                  SD, you believe in miracles. You think because he calls himself Bhagwan, he need not be ambitious
                  anymore.

                  This is really funny. Me and my new friend Bhorat are laughing.

                • satyadeva says:

                  No, Satchit, you clearly haven’t understood what I wrote, which is about ‘ambition’ (aka what an individual chooses to do), as I’ve understood from the words of one or two masters, ie that it’s internally ‘held’ in a different way by an ‘awakened being’, eg without attachment to the result, and therefore without stress, more of a playful ‘game’ than a deadly serious project.

                  I’m surprised, as you’ve often enough lectured people here about the importance of such an approach to life, citing it as your own preferred way of being. But not where qualifications, career, competition and money are concerned, perhaps?

                • satchit says:

                  Ambition is not always serious.

                  One can have the ambition to run 5 km each day.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Really, Satchit, I do not know why I bother responding to your comments. It is a real waste of time. We have had a few dummies on SN over the years, but you take the cake.

                  You say, “Things don’t happen by themselves. At least this is my experience.” That just says to me that you have very little experience in life. A lot of what happens in life just happens. There is no reason behind it. It just is.

                • satchit says:

                  Sorry, Lokesh, it is clear that you are the dummy.

                  The meaning was that one has to be ambitious and learn to pass an exam.

                  It does not happen by doing nothing.

                • satyadeva says:

                  A definition of ‘ambitious’ would help, hopefully, to emphasise one or two points of discrimination here…

                  “ambitious

                  adjective
                  having or showing a strong desire and determination to succeed.
                  “a ruthlessly ambitious workaholic”

                  synonyms:
                  aspiring, determined, forceful, pushy, enterprising, pioneering, progressive, eager, motivated, driven, enthusiastic, energetic, zealous, committed, go-ahead, go-getting, purposeful, assertive, aggressive, hungry, power-hungry; More
                  (of a plan or piece of work) intended to satisfy high aspirations and therefore difficult to achieve.
                  “an ambitious enterprise”
                  synonyms:
                  difficult, exacting, demanding, formidable, challenging, hard, arduous, onerous, tough, stiff, strenuous.”

                  Notice how the definition and many of the above synonyms reflect a sense of considerable one-pointed effort, strong determination, and even a degree of violence (in one way or another).

                  That’s what I (and, I think, Lokesh and Arpana) are saying wasn’t notably characteristic of Osho studying and eventually becoming, at a very young age, a philosophy professor. His, it seems, was far more a labour of love, a natural flow (as Frank has recently described his brief experience in an English class at school); as I said before, an “effortless effort”, arising from his inner nature and individual genius.

                • Lokesh says:

                  SD, he just does not get it, or does not want to get it. Why bother?

                • satchit says:

                  Yes, Lokesh, why bother?

                  One can ask why you get a special treatment here from the Mods. In my opinion, it is too special. How many comments did you delete from you in the last article? 5 or 6.

                  Seems the Mods don’t bother.

                  MOD:
                  Satchit, what exactly is your point, please, when you say, “How many comments did you delete from you in the last article? 5 or 6.”

                  I ask because we don’t understand the question at all, so please clarify what you mean.

                • satchit says:

                  @ SD

                  What exactly is my point?

                  1. Lokesh has special treatment to the comments because he has direct access, no Mod between, is it?

                  2. He has not only direct access, he can also delete his comments again after they’re already online, is it like this?

                  So you will not find certain comments from him at the last article from Shantam. For example, his control-freak comment and others.

                  Only answers to his deleted comments are there. And they are out of context now.

                  This feels a bit too much special treatment.

                  MOD:
                  This facility dates from the time of the former admin team, Satchit, and it was provided to one or two contributors whose comments generally tended to need little or no sub-editing, in order to speed up the ‘publishing’ process.

                  This situation has been questioned before and we’ll look into it, although at present no one around admin actually knows how to change it (if indeed, change is desirable).

                • satchit says:

                  @ SD

                  It’s okay, you need not change it. Just tell Lokesh, he shall not delete his messages after they are online.

                  My Herr Reichssturmbannführer still stands there, without any reason.

                  MOD:
                  If Lokesh can put them up he can take them down, Satchit. But I’ll ask him to let us know so we can delete any previous responses to his deleted posts.

          • satyadeva says:

            I tend to agree here, the philosophy studies were more a natural extension of his being than a function of ambition and the determination and usually, hard work, required to fulfil it, especially considering the anecdotes Osho and others have told about his laziness. That phrase (beloved of SN’s Kavita, of course) “effortless effort” would probably describe it, I reckon.

            And I suspect that at best, that aspect of his life was a conscious preparation for what he already knew or sensed as his destiny – but again, not in the ordinary sense of ‘achieving a goal’, but simply doing what came naturally, ‘doing what he did’, as it were.

            After all, he didn’t call himself “The Blessed One” for nothing, y’know….

            • frank says:

              By the accounts of his reading habits (‘The Osho Source Book’, by his librarian) Osho had read most if not all of the philosophical tomes before he came up against them in class.

              So what`s ‘ambition’ and what is just ‘where interest takes you’?

              When I was at school, I was also a “blessed-one”. I remember many teachers referring to me aa “a blessed nuisance”!

              Probably not unlike a few of us here, I was a lazy, rebellious skiver with my mind on anything other than the seeming nonsense that a bunch of threatening oddballs (the teachers) seemed determined to try and shoe-horn into my brain. A perennial candidate for the “could/should do better” end of term report.

              At one point, I briefly had an English teacher whose lessons didn`t seem like lessons, they were unbelievably interesting. He had been to India in the 50s and all sorts. I actually looked forward to them because they seemed like lengthy ‘red herrings’ and not work at all, just talking and writing about all kinds of interesting stuff. Without realising it, I ended up at the top of the class, which was a very rare occurrence in my schooldays.

              My `ambition`, if anything, was to do as little `work` as possible, because it didn`t register as work but just as something interesting. It was effortless. Unfortunately it only lasted a couple of terms.

              To have had an education consisting of such scenarios would have been `blessed`, for sure.

              • Arpana says:

                I suggest if Osho had decided (I am using the word only in a utilitarian sense) working in a fish and chip shop, or kebab takeaway for that matter, had best served his purpose, that is where he would have ended up.

                The discussion is only happened because we view everything in a hierarchy; which is to say Professor of Philosophy is superior to fish and chippy server, but surely that hierarchy of ‘value’ is all part of what he has set out to obliterate. That hierarchy of more and less.

                He didn’t become a professor of philosophy out of ambition, but as SD and Lokesh are saying, because it was utilitarian.

                • satchit says:

                  Certainly, I also think that professor was not his goal, but maybe a tool to train his mind.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Now you’ve shifted the focus to his ‘life goal’, Satchit, avoiding the issue of whether or not he was driven, as it were, by ambition to become a professor of philosophy.

                  I would say again that primarily he was motivated by natural inclination, by sheer love of the subject. It simply fitted him ‘like a glove’, as the saying goes. The ‘mind training’ was a side-effect’.

                  And another important effect of that swift rise to professorship was the automatic status it conferred in India at that time, meaning that his voice would be consiudered a significant one, influential among the educated and respected by the rest (if they cared at all, of course – all but a tiny handful of the locals I met in Pune were basically indifferent to Osho, except for his people being a good source of income).

            • Arpana says:

              @SD,
              A game of chess can be played ambitiously or conscientiously.
              The very nature of the game means there will be a winner. An individual could be playing conscientiously and win, but not to win, to play. (I am not particularly competitive, but can’t imagine I could do it).

              I am addressing you because I do not believe Scratchie is interested in exploring this, but you obviously are.

            • satchit says:

              The discussion started with Lokesh’s opinion: “Ambition did not rank at all in his life.”

              And my opinion was: Difficult to do an education without ambition.

              So we have two opinions now.

              Fact is: Nobody knows if he felt ambition or not. The rest is speculation.

              • satyadeva says:

                Yes, Satchit, but there exists informed speculation – and some speculation is considerably more informed than others.

                You show little evidence of having been exposed to explanations of how ‘the master consciousness’ functions. Thus you rely upon ordinary common sense and simple logic, apparently unaware of or ignoring all evidence to the contrary, itself supplied by the masters themselves.

                Not that I expect you to accept this as you seem to be particularly stuck in your fixed viewpoints. Like most people really.

              • Arpana says:

                @Satchit

                “Nobody knows if he felt ambition or not.”

                Then why did you say he was driven by ambition in the first place, as a statement of fact?

              • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                Nobody knows, Satchit, that´s quite right.

                Speculation is truly a mind´s game and intellectual exercise. Point is – re my understanding – that the heart knows (and responds) the rare moments when an understanding is penetrating ´Time´.

                And even more rare it is when then words come out from no-where (or from ‘essence’ if you want to use this also meanwhile unfortunately misused vocabulary).

                The heart knows and also knows about the issue that nothing, just nothing, can be held in a fixed fist. Understanding comes from the realms of NOT-knowing and yet knows.

                You, Satchit, have more of a pundit´s speech (here) – and you do take much care to not show up as a vulnerable ordinary human being. Must be not easy for your heart´s concerns (needs), I presume.

                Madhu

                • satchit says:

                  No Madhu, I’m not really a pundit.

                  But surely, sometimes I am.

                  The heart is easily judged here. I remember when I talked about my falling in love with the master, somebody immediately spoke about a cliche.
                  So this is how it goes here.

                  What shall I do if somebody calls me a dummy or an asshole? Shall I say “thank you” and hold the other cheek?

                • Lokesh says:

                  Madhu, I suspect that Satchit is in his early thirties and runs a tea stall on a street corner in Mumbai’s Colaba district.

                • satchit says:

                  Nice imagination, Loco. Try once more!

                  I will say ‘hot’, if you come close to reality.

                • Arpana says:

                  Satchit -
                  Tenacious or stubborn?
                  You decide.
                  Vote now.!!!
                  ┐(‘~`;)✌

                • satyadeva says:

                  He’s a German…

                  End of!

                • Lokesh says:

                  “Reality”! Jesus! I want to stay as far away from consensual reality as possible. If I come close to reality, Satchit, please warn me.

                • satchit says:

                  Ah yeah, you guys, you miss an answer from me because of the ‘ambition-matter’?

                  Maybe he would say “ambition happened” to him, I don’t know.

                  But now it comes to my mind that before going to Oregon he talked about ambition. Something like his people should behave like the ambitious ones.

                  Maybe someone can find the lecture.

          • Shantam prem says:

            So, Lokesh, you think Bhagwan was not dictating to Sheela or other boardroom members?

            Does it mean guru people sit like babies in the pram and their managers lead them?

            It seems every generation creates its own kind of myths around its chosen few. Surely Jesus was son of God is as much a myth as to say this or that Guru has no ambition. Mooji has also no ambition, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar or Jaggi Vasudeb too are in the same league.

            • Arpana says:

              Of course you think that, Shantam. You are devious, manipulative and opportunistic.

              All you have demonstrated by these remarks is that you have no experience of what is called being in flow, no experience of the joy of being lost in anything.

              • Lokesh says:

                Arpana, basically Shantam is a very square kind of man. Nothing wrong in that. The world is full of squares. Thing is, Shantam is so square he does not even know what that means.

                • shantam prem says:

                  Lokesh, time and again you have proven to be a street level political chap, who is very much eager to have cordial relations, even with the pan shop owner. Your civil courage is doubtful.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        I suscribe to Arpana´s response (at 11:05 am) to you, Lokesh, re your last paragraph (at 9:52 am). Very much so!

        In these turbulent (chat-)times and otherwise, it has become rare (for me) that the very heart-beat shows enchantment.

        Had (after reading) a walk by the river here. And some cloud watching.

        Send you my joy for this morning’s surprise. Now.

        Madhu

  23. anandrahul says:

    After Masterbashing of the first of the series of articles submitted by PR, or better said, Bashing of the young Master, I sincerely hope that my dear moderators at Sannyasnews have the courage to put second article/discourse on this forum.

    I shall not comment and try to find the silence in the gaps between the words spoken in the upcoming series of discourses.

    • kavita says:

      AR, you sound more like PR’s alter ego every time you comment! Are you? Anyway. why would you agree?!

      • anandrahul says:

        My comment has been in line and context with the introduction of the starting of this thread discussion if you read the opening of this thread:
        “Here’s the first of a series of articles by Prem Ritvik, a 23 year-old Indian sannyasin who’s recently come across Sannyas News and made his fresh presence felt.”

        And if anyone goes through the entire length of this thread topic discussion, most of the replies would give a sense of letting PR know that this article of his seemed more to be theoretical knowledge.

        So how do you compare me to PR’s alter ego? My comments were my own response to the subject matter of his article.

        • anandrahul says:

          I shall copyright and trademark my comments. They are a result of my creativity.

          Smileys

        • kavita says:

          Dictionary:

          alter ego
          noun
          1 – a person’s secondary or alternative personality.
          “in the flesh she is a million miles from her photographic alter ego”
          2 – an intimate and trusted friend.

  24. swami anand anubodh says:

    Oh well, live and learn….
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCud8H7z7vU

  25. anandrahul says:

    Kavita ji,
    Last time you removed the reply button.
    This time you forgot to do so.

    • kavita says:

      Reply buttons are not in my/SN bloggers’ control, AR.
      Maybe the SN’s tech-team/MOD has the answer to that

      MOD:
      Not right now, I’m afraid, Kavita..

  26. Jivan Alok says:

    Intrigued whether the whole series of articles has been prepared and are supposed to be issued as the proper timing comes, or the articles will be written one by one in response to the readers’ feedback?

    MOD:
    The articles are ready and will be put up when it’s time, Alok.

  27. shantam prem says:

    As a matter of fact, neither me nor my friends in Pune liked western men called Swamis. Most of the time they were a target of our stand-up comedy kind of sentences in our night-long gossip satsangs.

    After 30 years, I wonder how far-sighted they were as, one by one, they left Pune because of the western mind creeping around Bhagwan Osho. For me it was clear, I wanted to stay till the bitter end.

    Osho the Indian got too much allured by the western mind. They are the ones who stabbed from behind. It was surely not the Reagan administration but His very own cult management.

    • kavita says:

      Shantam, perhaps yours is only the half-truth. Let me add the remaining half too: the Indian collective mind & heart was responsible for Osho coming back to India!

      • shantam prem says:

        Kavita, this is a big compliment for India.
        My point is the genius and intellect of India felt repulsed to see too many westerners trying to feel superior on the basis of stolen stories from their culture.

        • kavita says:

          Shantam, the genius & intellect of India, as well as the rest of the world who were close to Osho, got over their jealousy in their man-woman relationships to a great extent but their jealousy towards fellow-disciples seems to be still intact!

          Probably this (between fellow-disciples) kind of jealousy is the root cause of the formation of after Master is no more.

          • satyadeva says:

            “…the genius & intellect of India, as well as the rest of the world who were close to Osho, got over their jealousy in their man-woman relationships to a great extent…”

            Did they, Kavita? I wonder if that’s true…I suspect it’s very wide of the mark in fact.

            • anand yogi says:

              Perfectly correct, Kavita!

              Only yesterday, Swami Bhorat was telling me about doing groups in the Pune 1. At one point, he looked round and there was an enormous gorilla fucking the ass off his wife! Bhorat, being in possession of Indian genius and intellect, simply went into full lotus and felt nothing!

              Also, Shantambhai quite correctly felt repulsed on contact with the vile western male baboons! Of course he felt no jealousy that they were richer than him, smarter than him, better-looking than him, had a better life than him, a better passport than him and had the pick of a wide range of Kate-Winslet lookalikes while he had to accept hand-me-down-sloppy seconds from soon-to-be convicted rapists like Mohan Singh Michael Lyons, in order to get a shag!

              And within only a matter of a few years, those same alcoholic, cigarette-smoking baboons had stolen his religion and his intelligence from him in broad daylight and left him stranded with only a pair of out-of-date underpants for religion and a brain ravaged by Japanese zen-porn and pharmaceuticals in a spiritual wasteland, with the only banging he can do is banging impotently for revenge on keyboard and begging anti-depressants from goras with western mind who had caused his problems in the first place!

              And his tirades at brownskin disciples of Osho are also nothing to do with jealousy!

              He feels absolutely no envy or jealousy at people who are living the dream and flying round the world with female disciples at feet hanging on every word whilst he has to do macjob and waste life falling asleep in cold churches in spiritual wasteland of West surrounded by whiteskin males that repulse him and being butt of jokes coming from western mind on SN!

              Yahoo!
              Hari Om!

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              Yes Satyadeva, I´m also wondering. Would second your diagnosis “wide of the mark” as a fact too.

              At the very end of yesterday and after midnight just now – I´ve been remembering ‘Kabale und Liebe’, a Friedrich Schiller Theatre Play of the eighteenth century, running up to be performed up to nowadays in the theatres – also in contemporary London – under the title: ‘Love and Intrigues’.

              However…it is said that Pandora closed her box and left the ´hope´ in it…

              Peace is not a five-letter word.
              But a state of Being.
              And we sometimes (even here!) get a tongue-tip of taste of that precious feeling, don´t we?

              Thank you for being busy in the UK/SN admin/editing line, Satyadeva, after Parmartha´s departure.
              Have you been friends – meeting – in the body too?

              Madhu

            • kavita says:

              SD, it was a wide*, no doubt, but not off the mark; it was also too high to be hit by this batsman!

              *The event of a ball being delivered by a bowler too wide or (in international cricket) too high to be hit by the batsman by means of a normal cricket shot, and ruled so by the umpire.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_(cricket)

              • satyadeva says:

                Not completely sure what you mean here, Kavita! Is it that you’re saying you’re just speculating (or even wish-fulfilling) rather than basing such a claim on solid evidence?

                • kavita says:

                  SD, what I mean is different & various kinds of emotions are present in a subtle form, one way or the other, until one is enlightened perhaps!

                  In my experience, nothing wrong in that, we need a life force (vitality) in some form.

                  Btw, I mostly research on the subject before blogging!

                • satyadeva says:

                  But do you really believe a large proprtion of sannyasins have gone beyond, ‘transcended’ jealousy (and its concomitant, competitiveness), Kavita?

                  As far as ‘casual flings’ etc. go, ok, perhaps. But in genuine love affairs, longer-term or major relationships? I very much doubt that is the case for most.

                • kavita says:

                  Yes, I am speaking from my experience & also of close friends who are in fact cordial towards their exes’ partners and partner’s exes too in major relationships.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Well, that’s nothing extraordinary, Kavita, when it involves exes’ partners and partner’s exes.

                  I’m talking about jealousy of a ‘live’ competitor for one’s actual partner. And, I guess, jealousy of the partner of someone whom you’d dearly want to be ‘yours’ (as it were).

                • kavita says:

                  Well, SD, that hasn’t happened as yet in my case; hope I don’t have to go through that, at least in my lifetime!

  28. shantam prem says:

    What to say about plane? I don´t even know how to drive a car! So the below example is only as analogy.

    When a Ferrari runs at 250 kms. per hour it is a natural power of the motor. When it thinks it can fly also, it is ambition in the worldly as well as spiritual sense.

    • satchit says:

      No, this is not ambition.
      This is a Ferrari dreaming that it can fly.

      • satchit says:

        Now this is Shantam, daydreaming.

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!

          A man who does not know how to drive car but only rides bike with tyres flat as vital organs of man after wankathon at local naked sauna discusses merits of Ferrari engine – this is certainly a fine metaphor for quality of your spiritual search!

          Of course, you have no intelligence and wisdom left, it is understandable!
          It has all been stolen by superior westerners who claim it as their own!

          Bitterness and overt racism is certainly a fine way of showing these western baboons who is really superior in the matter of spirituality!

          Osho was certainly destroyed by the western male mind of western disciples! And even your heroic efforts to balance the karma by infusing the western female body with the outpourings of the spiritual longings of 5000 years have proved less successful than the attempt to clean up explosion in banana lassi factory with pair of 400 year-old holey underpants!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!

  29. shantam prem says:

    “Youth and Osho” is in a way a very misleading title. Youth can read Osho or other mystics but to treat someone who is no more as master is not an act of youth but old mind, old conditioning.

    The rebellious genius himself has condemned such belief-based ideas. Youth were those who took jump in the unknown and followed untested products.

    If youth has learned anything from Osho then the first step will be to find some living being among 8.5 billions.

    Whether someone reads thousands of talks or just one Bible, I will recommend only one book. One gets less feeder for the mind.

    • satyadeva says:

      Shantam, first you say, “…to treat someone who is no more as master is not an act of youth but old mind, old conditioning.” Then, at the end of your post you declare, “Whether someone reads thousands of talks or just one Bible, I will recommend only one book. One gets less feeder for the mind.”

      You do realise, I trust, that the Bible is about old teachers, old masters – all LONG dead? So, presumably you’re not about to recommend that to anyone?

      So you’re recommending young people choose one living teacher and just one of his/her books? How remarkably narrow is your perspective – rather like a conventional, fundamentalist type in fact!

      Are you aware that most teachers urge their people to read or listen to as much of their work as possible, one reason being that their teaching, like Life and Truth, are multi-faceted, multi-dimensional, by no means a ‘one-size-fits-all-at-all-times’ matter?

      Haven’t even you, for example, experienced different levels of inspiration from different media sources (eg his books, videos) at different times, while with Osho?

      And surely youth needs to experience many things, from many angles, not be prematurely confined to just a single, limited source which, even it serves a certain purpose, will almost inevitably lose its impact and leave the individual thirsty for something else?

      • shantam prem says:

        You are right, SD. Last sentence is full with bakchodi.*
        *This Indian word is getting part of urban dictionary. It means ‘mind-fuck’.