Osho: the experience of his physical presence?

PHYSICAL PROXIMITY TO OSHO….HOW IMPORTANT WAS/IS IT?                                                

Lokesh Explores this Question

My favourite book is ‘I AM THAT’ by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. I have read it cover to cover dozens of times and yet I still come across passages whereby I think, ‘How could I have missed this?’ My conclusion is that you hear things when you are ready to hear them.

During the past few months, I have occasionally scanned the book for one of my favourite chapters. I wanted to refer to it in the creation of this topic. I can’t find it. It concerns a young man who visits Maharaj in his cramped attic on one occasion. An exchange takes place and, after the young seeker leaves, Maharaj comments that such people are rare, in relation to their depth of enquiry, sincerity and earnestness. You can tell from the guru’s words that he was pleased with the encounter.

During the seven years I spent in Poona One, I had darshan with Bhagwan (Osho)  many times. We also spoke with each other on a number of occasions. I also watched hundreds of people have darshan. They came in all shapes and sizes. I sat in Buddha Hall during hundreds of discourses and was there the day that Osho told the people, sitting bolt upright on their velvet cushions in the front rows, that they were positioned where they were because they needed his energy more than the people seated in the back. I can remember feeling chuffed at the time, because I was sitting where I normally sat…right at the back of the auditorium. My personal ego trip aside, that was a very important discourse, because in one fell stroke Osho dispelled the notion that being physically close to him implied that you were in some way special, more spiritually advanced etc..

In 1991, I went to Lucknow and met H W L Poonja. Once again I watched people in satsang, some I knew from Poona days. I found it refreshing to hear the Master say that he did not want people hanging around, that you could get what he had to impart in four days, and it would be good if you moved on to make space for others.

On Ibiza I know many people who were with Osho and H W L Poonja. They also come in all shapes and sizes. Some of them are still the same silly people that they are somehow destined to be. Being with Osho and Poonjaji, some of them for years, does not appear to have impacted their lives at all. Of course, this is a judgement and, from my years of experimenting with psychedelics, if there is one thing I learnt from those times it is this…you can never really tell what level of consciousness a human being is operating from, no matter how utterly stupid they might appear. It is a huge mistake to be taken in by appearances.

My conclusion is this…being in close physical proximity to a guru, Osho included, will make no difference to your state of being unless you are in the right state of receptivity to partake in what is on offer. I have often pulled other sannyasin blogger’s wooden legs on this site about not having actually met Osho, so how could they actually know what the man was all out on an energetic level? Although there may be an element of truth in it, when it all boils down, I really do not think it is that important a point. It is also of interest to observe that when asked if a blogger actually met Osho, they invariably do a cover up if they haven’t. Create a subterfuge of points that are not relevant to the direct question. It’s almost as if they are ashamed about not having met Osho. If this is the case it is a sorry affair, because there is nothing to be ashamed of. There is nothing to hide. One person can sit with an enlightened man for years and remain unchanged, another can merely receive a glance from the master, hear a certain word, look at a photograph of the master and their life can be changed for ever in a positive direction. What is important is how earnest your enquiry is in relation to truth. All else is superfluous. Exhibiting apparently spiritual behaviour, reading the right books, attending satsangs etc.,  will do nothing for you unless your heart and mind are in the right constellation.

On the other hand, if you are in the right space, life can be the greatest bestower of spiritual blessings. Watching a glorious sunset, sharing a joke with a friend, making love, the light in a baby’s eyes, an animal friend etc. can all illuminate our lives beyond our wildest imagining… if we are open to it. Zen is full of stories about simple daily events taking on the most profound significance. The bottom falls out of an old nun’s wooden bucket and bingo she hits the jackpot. A frog jumps into a pond, plop, and you got it. It’s all good news, because we do not need to limit ourselves to being in close physical proximity to a guru to find the truth. Life is the supreme guru, and a most generous one at that.

I began this wee essay with Nisargadatta and I will finish it with some of his wise words.
‘Living near’ does not mean breathing the same air. It means trusting and obeying, not letting the good intentions of the teacher go to waste. Have your guru always in your heart and remember his instructions…this is real abidance with the true. Physical proximity is least important. Make your entire life an expression of your faith and love for your teacher…this is real dwelling with the Guru.

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124 Responses to Osho: the experience of his physical presence?

  1. shantam prem says:

    Last paragraph-type words are spoken by hundreds of Indian Gurus thousands of time before hundreds of millions of people, so much so they have become part of Indian religious DNA.
    Has Lokesh or others have ever thought why Nisargadatta’s book has never been quoted in the Indian religious circles? I don’t think even two copies are sold in India every year. Reason is simple: there is no novelty.

    Dozens of Indian religious channels are full with such talks and such people. Without doubt, Osho was different from run-of-the-mill, nice religious people.

    Other than devotion, He also taught doubt, questioning enquiry, no blind belief, neither on God or holy growly.

    For example, I don’t believe in this over-hyped marketing logo of ‘never born. never died’, yet a gratitude is always there for the genius master who wanted to create a prototype of happy celebrating loving world. What John Lennon’s song ‘Imagine’ says, Osho dared to create such world. It does not matter how short-lived.

    I bow down not just before Osho, but His people too.

    MOD:
    holy growly, Shantam?!

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam enquires, “Has Lokesh or others ever thought why Nisargadatta’s book has never been quoted in the Indian religious circles?”
      To be honest, I have never thought about this. Why would I? ‘I Am that’ is not a book for everyone. I have no interest in Indian religious circles and therefore have no idea whether they quote Nisargadatta or not. Besides, what difference does that make to my life?

      I actually checked three lists of top spiritual books. There was no mention of Nisargadatta, or Osho for that matter.

      Shantam states, “Dozens of Indian religious channels are full with such talks and such people.”
      I doubt that is true.

      Shantam also declares, “Without doubt, Osho was different from run-of-the-mill, nice religious people.”
      Nobody can argue with that on certain levels. Then again, Osho was quite run-of-the-mill when it came to being caught up in the West’s craving for all things material. Also, on the level of scandal he was quite run-of-the-mill in that many Indian gurus became embroiled in such things. Thankfully, he did not do a Jim Jones number to lift him above the run-of-the-mill.

      Shantam concludes, “I don’t believe in this over-hyped marketing logo of ‘never born. never died’, yet a gratitude is always there for the genius master who wanted to create a prototype of happy, celebrating, loving world.”

      Not the first time Shantam has voiced such opinions about the ‘never born. never died’ phenomenon. People tend to put down what they do not comprehend. The conclusion of the first paragraph in my wee article may well be relevant here: “You hear things when you are ready to hear them.”

      To say, “Gratitude is always there for the genius master who wanted to create a prototype of happy, celebrating, loving world” sounds good but if Osho’s prototype is put under a microscope it did not actually pan out to be such a great example of how a celebratory and happy world might look. At least not in my books.

      Quite often there existed a fear factor in Osho’s communes. Do you think threatening your disciples with, “I will leave the body if you lot do not shape up” is a gesture of love and celebration? You are very much mistaken if you do, because it is a statement tantamout to emotional blackmail.

      Personally, I am not sure if Osho set out to create a prototype of a happy, celebrating, loving world. I think he understood that life is more complicated than that and if there was a prototype it was to help waking up to that very hard fact.

      Shantam concludes with the following: “I bow down not just before Osho, but His people too.” To a large extent, I see this as an untrue statement. Osho’s people has to include the folk running the resort in Poona. Can’t see Shantam bowing down to them.

      As for bowing down to Osho, that is a lot easier now that he is no longer in this world, because it is a simple matter to replace Osho with a personal fantasy. Sitting in front of him in the body that would have been a well nigh impossible task.

      • shantam prem says:

        Basically, my intention was not to put down Lokesh’ s balanced and well written essay but take a bit of contradictory view. Many times, opposing views are more in harmony to push-start the engine than indifferent reactions.

        Today I had a long conversation with a sannyasin friend of 33 years who in his words has completed the mission a fortnight ago. This Indian friend from my home town Karnal is living in Houston and has an amazing connection with Osho.

        I wish to write his profile for sannyasnews with WhatsApp number in case anyone wants to connect for any reason with this latest star on the scene.

        I told him many times, when he was just an intense seeker rather than seer, “When we talk I have least doubt about your intentions. You are one of those who don’t parrot the books but speak with authentic experimental experience.”

        Because we at sannyas news are bunch of nice, down-to-earth seekers with irreverent reverence, it will be interesting when someone talks with this man Shyam.

        In his words, now he has enough of time and whole world seems like Commune and he is the specimen to say His is not an individual happening but chain reaction where many other Osho people will be pushed too for the beyond mind space.

        • Kavita says:

          Shantam, is he the Shyam who has a very beautiful wife? I remember her very sweet face; if so, do give him my regards, if possible.

      • Tan says:

        Hold on, Cecil!

        When you say: “Thankfully, he did not do a Jim Jones number to lift him above the run-of-the mill”, what do you mean? Jim Jones? Why? What has Jim Jones to do with Osho?

        And you explain at the end when you say:
        “As far bowing down to Osho, that is a lot easier now that he is no longer in the world, because it is a simple matter to replace Osho with a personal fantasy. Sitting in front of him in the body that would have been a well nigh impossible task.”

        So, I guess you never bowed down to Osho. That explains Papaji, Jim Jones etc…,

        Cheers!

  2. frank says:

    When it comes down to it, there are no qualifications that ensure wisdom or intelligence. No CV will do it, even if there was anyone to present it to who could grade it.

  3. Arpana says:

    Insight arrives unasked for in the most ordinary of circumstances, and in this instance, at a bus stop by the art school I went to; preceded by a train of musings about how challenging at times, hair-pullingly so at times, life has been since I took Sannyas, how miserably up against it I have felt at times.

    And then, as I often do, I asked myself what kept me going, to which I reply, “Because I trust Osho, despite the fact he is not a corporeal presence in my life, and hasn’t been for years”, and that’s familiar to me; and then I realised, also because I trust meditation, and I didn’t know that until this morning.

  4. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Lokesh,
    The ´Buddha´, as it is told in a parable, when in His historical time, having been hassled and pressed by pundits as by former friends and people in awe at His remarkable ´Shift´of Being, was asked to answer their questions (not Quest!): “Who are You?”

    It is said in the parable He answered after quite a long while, negating with “No”, “No” the manifold offered spiritual and otherwise classifications (just camouflaged into questions), but He at least is said to have responded: “I´m Awareness.”

    There´s a lot more to say about your putting the issue of a topic into a frame. For example, your Nisargadatta quote at the very end* and the mix of obedience and trust, for example, therein…(it gives me a shiver, what to do?).

    Or then the questionable stance for me, that the use of psychedelics “could bring a kind of shortcut”; but I’ll leave it like that, right now.

    However, if you attended the various Satsangs in different phases of your life to watch others instead of yourself and then give it a rating in hindsight about others some decades later, that´s very questionable too in my eyes.

    Otherwise, I read you say that Life is an utmost generous Teacher, to which
    I´d agree.

    Such a big, big bunch of flavours of your life-experiences you offered – sure. Strongly self-convinced, like pretty much always, and by that I mean you´re offering ‘spaciousness’ – but not really.

    And the latter (spaciousness), when being able to be in the Presence of the Mystic Osho, was/is what it’s all about – in my experience.
    More like growing into a love affair with Existence, with all its Joy and all its Pain too, after getting the initial Invitation (Initiation).

    Madhu

    *P.S:
    Met and experienced a Nisargadatta face-to-face acquaintance/follower/disciple (from the US) giving workshops for quite some time in the nineties in Europe about “De-Hypnotising” (getting rid of) the “Everyday Trances”, “Enneagram Training”, “Trauma” work, etc. etc.

    And sure enough, even this American fellow is not anymore where he was at quite some decades ago…like you, like me, like everybody else here, reading or writing.

  5. Parmartha says:

    Appreciate the article, and the work that has gone into it, Lokesh.

    I have been in places that contain the full Buddhafield flavour of Osho and he was certainly not there in the body. So it is not too much of a preoccupation for me.

    I was never a front row man myself, occasionally I used to get near the front on a labelled seat because I was a longish-term worker in the commune, etc. But it was not easy for me, even then, to sit on those flat, stone-cold floors! The back was always best.

    Those who got to the top in Sannyas – such a silly sort of notion – they were by and large the sort of people who got to the top in any business, and that was clear to me from early on…

    I actually think that Osho knew very few people as persons, and maybe no-one, he just maybe pretended with some of those front row people..!

    He himself could not be known as a person, and I recognised this by 1976!

    • Lokesh says:

      Yes, PM, Osho was a public figure, but also led a very private life. Not many people actually knew him on a personal level.

      Perhaps unrelated, but I just read a book that said some enlightened people need therapy because they have problems with their personality. Puts an unusual slant on the enlightenment phenomenon.

      • Kavita says:

        Interesting, but probably would depend if the writer is enlightened and also if he’s had therapy!

      • Bong says:

        Don’t read too many books!

      • shantam prem says:

        Humanity will be utterly grateful and Existence will shower flowers if few enlightened people dare to say, “Yes, we are ready for our brain mapping.”

        There are trillions of brain cells, there must be some common blinkering of light among all those illuminated people.

        Mountains of Switzerland may not be the same as in India but some similarity is there, exactly the way rivers in different countries have water which tastes like water and not beer.

        It seems like philosophical mind plus leadership quality plus narcissism and to declare oneself Enlightened becomes very easy.

    • satchit says:

      All this talking about front seats, back seats or listening to hundreds of discourses, is it something else than sharing memories?

  6. Kavita says:

    Lokesh I think & feeel very much the same about the physical proximity with the physical master . Thank you for sharing also for mentioning G in the previous thread was listening to an audio book on the same !

    Somehow I realised only in 1999 about that, until then I missed not being around Osho physically. And as you said, truly know now “that you hear things when you are ready to hear them.”

  7. dominic says:

    Oddly enough, ‘I Am That’ is my favourite book cover too! I must have read the cover dozens of times, and still wonder, “how did I miss that?” Receptivity is everything, isn’t it, to properly hear the master’s teaching?

    For example Osho’s, “I Am That…you’re not, get over it.”
    Papaji’s, “I Am That…go away and be my messenger (teachers go to hell!).”
    And the generic, “I Am That…delusional and dissociated”, or evergreen, “I Am That…show me the money and drop your knickers.”

    But the greatest insight and blessing at my AA (Advaitaholics Anon) meetings must be the simplest….

  8. Bong says:

    I was born in 1979, well after Osho’s passing? I didn’t get any buzz from Pune. I found Osho’s book ‘The Psychology of the Esoteric’ complete in and of itself. I think it brought my ‘Christian’ faith to a fruition and new depth at a very difficult time in my life around my 32nd birthday.

    My emotional suffering and prayerful meditation seem to yield results not unlike Mystic Rose is supposed to? Doing so in solitude and aloneness leads to awareness and oneness in even the busiest environments. It was like pre-dawn to the thousand suns that occurred later.

    Perhaps certain awareness and experience makes the realisation of enlightenment inevitable in due course. Past, present and future are one, so as for realisation of enlightenment, it is only perceptions that differ. Enough for today, lol.

    • Kavita says:

      Bong, how did you get this name ‘Bong’? And did you get here ie, SN? Only if it’s ok to share!

      P.S:
      What is the meaning of ‘Bong’?

      MOD:
      RECENTLY, James Abbott SAID HE IS Bong!

    • sannyasnews says:

      Your first sentence, Bong – no, Osho physically died in 1990.
      But this is confused, maybe you mean after Osho’s enlightenment? Yes, Osho is said to have become enlightened at age 21, in 1953.

  9. Parmartha says:

    I don’t know my Buddhism that well, but a little. As I remember, Subhuti was a lead disciple of the Buddha, but was said to only have got enlightened after the death of the Master as the Master’s presence was an impediment to that.

    I can see that if there is a sort of addiction to the Master’s presence, and some sort of ‘human’ bond, maybe even emotional from the disciple’s side, then the physical presence of the Master can be a handicap.

    But of course the taste has to come first. And the being with the Master would have to come first! When I hear of Masters sending their disciples away from their physical presence I always think it has the ring of authenticity.

    • dominic says:

      Perhaps you have to believe in ‘Masters’ to begin with and the stories around ‘Enlightenment’. I just see a lot of (childish) projection, idealisation, co-dependency, cultural conditioning, fantasy, myth-making etc. Not to mention the apparent contradiction in the teaching, of there only being consciousness as ultimate reality, yet constantly referencing and reinforcing individual spiritual superheroes.

      Dig down a little, and all these ‘characters’ seem flawed to me, human, all too human, and not living in a state of permanent bliss and detachment. I also think Buddhism and the Buddha does not merit pedestalling. Sure, it’s the best of a bad bunch, but still incomplete.

      As for Papaji sending people away to be his messengers, it was similar to Osho, except that, bish-bosh, he led people to believe they were now enlightened, ‘just like that’, but he disavowed them if they set up shop as teachers. Like Osho, it was a monopoly, there were no franchises.

      In this clip from youtube, Papaji says they’re all going to Hell, the audience in shock and bewilderment respond with laughter but I don’t think he’s kidding, judge for yourself…
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG-8RRHrIWk&t=70s

      • Lokesh says:

        Dominic, interesting comment. Perhaps you would care to share some of your personal experiences with masters. That way it will be easier to understand how you arrived at your conclusions. Nothing too in depth, just a couple of instances of being with a master that helped you realise it was all “a lot of (childish) projection, idealisation, co-dependency, cultural conditioning, fantasy, myth-making etc.” Thanks.

        • dominic says:

          I don’t say it’s ALL projection, Lokesh, but quite a lot of smoke and mirrors. Albeit from a non-dual perspective there are no masters, it’s a movie, a dreamplay, the world appearing in you as consciousness, no separation of subject and object. I’m sure you know this after reading ‘I Am That’ many times!

          Anyway back to Earth, I don’t buy into the master/disciple paradigm, seems like old hat to me, I think there’s been a positive culture shift away from it; maybe mentor, guide or teacher is a better word. Except that it still goes on of course, generating cult behaviour ( Mooji or Amma, for example).

          I am happy to take inspiration from where I find it, but I am not a dog and need no ‘Master’. Osho and Papaji were inspirations, but I can also see their flaws. I don’t have a problem with that, there’s no need to call them Masters. As for Nis, I didn’t visit him and don’t wish to get entangled in all the non-dual (often dissociating) concepts.

          I think the non-dual ‘Masters’ were rubbish at sorting out people’s emotional problems or unconscious (and their own), but maybe you could get ‘zapped’ with some pure orange consciousness sunshine if you were lucky!

          Sannyasins going around to be with the likes of Jean de Ruiter or Mooji (have you heard about the suicides?) looks like codependency to me.

          Anyway, it’s not my business, if people need ‘Masters’ in their life or thinking, let them have Masters. Just not my thing.

          • Kavita says:

            “Albeit from a non-dual perspective there are no masters, it’s a movie, a dreamplay, the world appearing in you as consciousness, no separation of subject and object.”

            It’s so refreshing to see/read clarity in writing! Thank you, Dominic.

          • Lokesh says:

            Good post, Dominic.

          • dominic says:

            Bottom line, there is mastering but no Masters. There is Oshoing, Papajiing, Nisargadattaing, Kavitaing, Lokeshing, Dominicing, even Shantam Preming happening ;) as images and sensations in the Unseen. You’re only ever mastering yourself…and all that jazz. Ooommm….

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        You say, Dominic: ” I just see a lot of (childish) projection, idealisation, co-dependency, cultural conditioning, fantasy, myth-making etc. Not to mention the apparent contradiction in the teaching, of there only being consciousness as ultimate reality, yet constantly referencing and reinforcing individual spiritual superheroes”…

        The unfortunate fate of a mere ´believer´ you describe here, I´d say.

        When I was looking today to find again on the net some takes of Isaac Shapiro on his time with Papaji he shared rather recently with friends of ´Meetings in Truth´ (with lots of laughter…), I got hooked on something else Isaac shared, when he quoted Nisargadatta in a sharing:
        “When I know I´m nothing, it is wisdom; when I know I´m everything, it is love, and between both of these poles my life flows.”

        No need of any ´believing´ such Truth here.

        An immediate heart-to heart connection, sensible for everybody present has been happening. Something of timeless wisdom, I´d presume.

        But as the mind does not like to follow some knowing of the heart so easily, an urge and a need may then occur to embody more compassion for all kinds of trials and errors – those of others as those from oneself- on the Path of Life, where we´re all meeting at.

        Madhu

        • dominic says:

          You lost me a bit there, Madhu, no surprise ;)
          All I can say is and what I’ve learned is, words are cheap but gurus are expensive!

        • Lokesh says:

          Isaac Shapiro, I had heard of him before I met him, because me and some amigos took over his house in Lucknow after he left to spread his enlightenment around.

          I caught up with him years later, at a satsang he was giving in Amsterdamn. I went with an old pal who talked me in to having a face-to-face with Isaac on the podium in front of the two hundred or so seekers who were there to…I really have not a clue what.

          So I get up on the podium and say “hi” to Isaac. Kinda nice Jewish uncle type with specs. Then I say, “What’s the story? Are you enlightened?”

          Isaac looks a bit puzzled and answers, “I don’t know.”
          “You don’t know?” I say. “Then what on earth are you doing on a podium with a couple of hundred people looking at you, like you have the answer to the answer?”

          Isaac shakes his head and says again, “I don’t know.”
          I laughed and so did Isaac. I then engaged him in a bit of mundane chit chat and after a few minutes said “‘bye” and left the satsang.

          Isaac Shapiro is a sweet man, but enlightened? Gimme a fuckin’ break.

          There are lots of Advaita satsang-givers. Reminds me of one sannyasin guy, Cuckoo. He gives ‘Shitsang’. Went to a Shitsang one night in Amsterdamn. Cuckoo shows up with a toilet seat round his neck. What a fuckin’ hoot! It was a lot more enlightening than anything Isaac managed to drum up.

          A lot of these satsang-givers do a great public service…they provide a situation that allows people to get a wee taste of the guru number. I do not find anything wrong with that at all.

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            “Gimme a fuckin’ break”, you say, Lokesh? No need for that, Lokesh – you´re in the midst of your own “break” here, ‘illumined’ by your hallucinatory story-telling habit, first to yourself, then in decision to give that crap a go for ´the world at large´.

            Thanks for shedding some light too in particular about your taste about toilet seats being used for a performances.

            Well, one of these days here…what to do…?

            Madhu

            P.S:
            You could at least have googled that Isaac never, ever wore specs…that you didn´t meet him is out of the question….

          • dominic says:

            “Nice jewish uncle type”…
            Look at any list of satsang teachers and half of them are jewish, statistically very high. What’s up with that? Is it the overachiever’s syndrome, “Look at my son/daughter, the satsang teacher, isn’t he/she special?”?

            Any brave soul (or jews) care to comment (I’m already in enough trouble with muslims)? ;)

      • Parmartha says:

        Because I know you, Dominic, it is true, is it not, that you spent many years around Masters, and presumably during that long period embraced the disciple/Master game?

        Now you see the whole thing as some kind of very long immaturity and reject it?

        • dominic says:

          Deep down, Parmartha, in my heart, I don’t think I ever fully embraced the Master/disciple game, it now has some ugly and abusive associations to me, in the spiritual world anyway.

          For example, I never changed my name or really joined a commune, but remained on the outside, dipping in when I needed to. And I never enjoyed wearing a robe or a mala, but it was the price you paid.

          I am grateful for what I received from being around Osho and the Buddhafield, as well as being weaned off the collective fantasies, and having my misgivings and doubts confirmed over time.

          Yes, the journey goes on, it was a stage, “but I was so much older then. I’m younger than that now.”

      • Parmartha says:

        Good clip. the criticism of Andrew Cohen sounded authentic to me. Made me think that Papaji himself was ‘alright’.

        • dominic says:

          We all know about Andrew Cohen, but he slagged off all the people he was bigging up in his satsangs, calling them “leeches”.

          It’s the old “everybody’e arrogant and full of ego except me” line. I personally experienced him on occasion as being shaming and abusive. I harbour no ill-will and am grateful for what I received, but to me, enlightenment or not, he had ‘issues’, like most gurus, probably unresolved childhood trauma with a nice spiritual mask on top, that leaks out from time to time.

          Here’s Papaji again, maybe it floats your boat, but it sounds like sour grapes to me, the finger pointing with three fingers pointing back:

          David: Many people have heard you say, “I have not given my final teachings to anyone.’ What are these final teachings, and why are you not giving them out?”
          Papaji: Nobody is worthy to receive them. Because it has been my experience that everybody has proved to be arrogant and egotistic…

          So to me, these so-called Masters, I can’t think of any exception, were charismatic and had Power, but they were also dicks with a lot of inflation because of all the adulation.

          • Parmartha says:

            It sounds like you visited and met with Papaji, Dominic?

            Advaita never grabbed me in such a big way. In fact, when I saw an earlier post of yours I could not agree more, none of them advaita people addressed psychological issues.

            I did go to one or two of Andrew Cohen’s satsangs, and did think he was arrogant, and had his own problems, though he also had some presence. He certainly could not help those with emotional problems to get through before they simply got to just sitting.

            All the advaita people I ever met seemed to think that by some intellectual or conceptual shift or even trick, everything could be solved…a major mistake and an expensive one for some.

            • dominic says:

              I agree, P!

              Many seekers conflate their emotional suffering with a spiritual search, hoping to be rescued by a teacher and ‘enlightenment’, while the teachers do them a disservice by helping them to dissociate and split off from their feelings and body, miring them even deeper in suffering.

              A young lad, living at the Mooji encampment. has recently killed himself. I see this as one such example.

  10. shantam prem says:

    How many disciples Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj had?

    Master´s physical presence! Does it mean when elephant and tiger meet in master´s presence, they will eat the same food?

    Food may be different, like meditation techniques, but they will walk in the circle of the circus when ringleader is there. Without ringleader, it will be reality as usual.

    In Hindi we have a common saying, “You can keep dog´s tail in a straight tube for 12 years, tail will still remain twisted.”

  11. shantam prem says:

    If mere physical presence of a master was that important, I am 100% sure truth loving, humanity loving Osho would have instructed to close the circus after His death or would have prepared one among the closest to wear the robe of a successive master.

    Nothing like that sort happened. Maybe a bad judgement, master honey-trapped by false devotion.

    When one looks at the history and present state of ‘cult leaders’, when was the last time educated ones from the West adore someone as master so much as Osho?

    • satchit says:

      “When one looks at the history and present state of ‘cult leaders’, when was the last time educated ones from the West adore someone as master so much as Osho?”

      With Bhagwan it was a matter of zeitgeist.
      And the promotion was also not bad:
      Orange-coloured, happy people with the picture of the adored master around their necks.

      • dominic says:

        I agree with you, Satchit. It was the Zeitgeist. The golden age of eastern gurus attracting young and somewhat misty-eyed and gullible westerners.

        Today the zeitgeist is political correctness and its related collective delusions leading to western suicide. One day there will be a wake-up call, perhaps too late, and the cry will be, “What the fuck were we thinking?”

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Fitting to or with a “Zeitgeist” you say, Satchit? “Promotion”, you say?

        Well, for me, who grew up here in Germany right after World War II, meeting the Master and friends from all over the world, it meant much more for me than just singing the lyrics with the Pink Floyd Brothers*, or changing colour of clothes for the time being.

        As far as the former “Zeitgeist” of a majority (global as local) went, what happened or is happening touching the ´Zeitgeist´ turned/turns out more as an irritation, to say the least, and that even up to now, I´d say.

        Evolutionary steps – in times of big changes and challenges asking for very multi-dimensional (!) climate changes in these globalised villages we´re all living in.

        Madhu

        *P.S:
        Recommended re-read of the whole album´s lyrics, ‘The Wall’, if you are interested – an evergreen-contemporary.

        • frank says:

          Osho was the piper at the gates of dawn.
          People asked for more. He got fearless.
          He set the controls for the heart of the sun,
          Things went into interstellar overdrive.
          Then some of the disciples started to meddle.
          Got into money.
          Enlightenment got obscured by clouds.
          The lord of the full moon ended up on the dark side of the moon.
          He moved on to that great gig in the sky.
          Now, the disciples have gone all: us and them, mostly comfortably numb, some with brain damage, others are just relics singing de nile song and saying:
          “Wish you were here.”

          And to his disciples (and all the others) who have declared themselves enlightened, you`d have to say,
          “Hey! Teacher! Leave those kids alone!”

          MOD:
          WHAT’S de nile song, PLEASE, Frank?

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            Hi Frank,

            Thanks !

          • Lokesh says:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok8eeJXllUEMOD
            Surely you can guess…it is a Pink Floyd song from the soundtrack of MORE, a depressing film about a junkie in Ibiza circa 1969. The Nile Song is claimed by some to be the first heavy metal song. I don’t know about that but it is a heavy song because of the type of chord progression used.

            MOD:
            THANKS, Lokesh (and Frank). I’M AFRAID THE SN OFFICE CREW ONLY KNOW ABOUT Peter, Paul and Mary, The Bachelors and Jim Reeves!

        • satchit says:

          Well, Madhu, for me, who also grew up in Germany, there is a change in autumn 1977. Before this date young people were interested in political change. After this, the search started for the Inner.

          This is what I mean with “the zeitgeist changed”.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Autumn

  12. shantam prem says:

    “Orange-coloured, happy people with the picture of the adored master around their necks.”
    It reminds me of Orkut and hotmail! Yes, I also remember Murphy Transistor of my childhood.

  13. Lokesh says:

    Satchit enquires, “When was the last time educated ones from the West adore someone as master so much as Osho?”

    How about now? There are a number of Indian gurus around today who are more popular than Osho ever was. Perhaps Satchit is unaware of this due to being too lazy to research or the fact that these gurus go about their business more quietly than Osho, with less controversy surrounding them.

    The first guru who comes to mind is Sri Sri Ravishankar. Whatever you think about the man he certainly is involved in a lot of good and positive works.
    https://www.srisriravishankar.org/

    • satchit says:

      You did miss the quotation marks, Lokesh.

      This question:
      “When was the last time educated ones from the West adore someone as master so much as Osho?” is from your friend Shantam Prem.

  14. shantam prem says:

    All the Indian gurus are the same, the way Pizza delivery services are similar. Naturally they are very successful as Pizza Hut or Dominos.

    Osho was different. Not only he was genius in his oratory skills and personal charisma, but also He is the only one who allowed Sex ‘n’ Love in his ashram. I ask Lokesh, tell us, brother, truthfully, where else in Indian Ashrams you would have got so many chances to try and discard?

    Why Osho allowed it? Naturally, Ageh Bharti kind can´t answer this. Such people are in plenty around Ravi Shankar or Jaggi Vasudev, two most successful gurus of internet age, though very mediocre in their approach.

    MOD:
    Shantam, WHAT DOES discard MEAN HERE, PLEASE?

    • shantam prem says:

      “Try and discard” was used and is still being used by the remaining alpha males in Resort. When you find someone interesting, use all the social and spiritual skills to get her and when you want to discard, simply convey, “I want to be alone, concentrating only on meditation.”

      It is a matter of fact, people were not with Osho for years but with the commune; commune which was very liberal in the approach about man/woman relating.

      Osho has chosen so and I respect him for this courageous act. That it went down the drain I blame solely on disciples who exploited the system crudely.

      • satyadeva says:

        “When you find someone interesting, use all the social and spiritual skills to get her and when you want to discard, simply convey, “I want to be alone, concentrating only on meditation.”

        However creepy sounding, that might unfortunately tend to be par for the course for men – but you’d never use your “social and spiritual skills” for such manipulation, surely, Shantam, however much you might have enjoyed that “very liberal” ambience.

        I’d like to hear women’s thoughts on this as the wonder of it is that anyone actually believed such utter bullshine. Maybe another topic though?

        • shantam prem says:

          SD, I am curious is there a single organisation, single person or a master you followed till the dawn or the bitter end.

          To me, you sound like a white coloured man enjoying the carnival of life from the distance. If you follow something with your heart and being you get the right also to make puns and responsibility to reform and modify.

          Depth in the being comes going all the way, otherwise rolling stones gather no moss.

          • satyadeva says:

            An absolutely irrelevant response, Shantam (as per usual when you feel unable to deal adequately with an issue).

            Why don’t you look and see how and why your button’s been pressed?

            • shantam prem says:

              My buttons won´t be pressed if someone who was in Osho Commune during 1987-2007 and also from 2007-till today contradicts any of my points.

              I will be even thankful if someone points factual or psychological error of the phase I write as history and collective psychology.

              You know, me, you and others are seekers and not seers. Only seers can live in the luxury, there is no exam any more, there is no karma any more. Seekers walk on razor´s edge!

              • satyadeva says:

                Shantam, ‘buttons pressed’ means an immediate, self-defensive, unconscious reaction, as opposed to a considered response, indicating one feels threatened, usually because of knowing or suspecting at some level that what’s triggered this reaction is somehow true and that, if so, would seriously undermine one’s self-image, or a part of it in which you have much investment.

                What you’re in effect saying here is that you’re always, without exception, right, and no one (with the possible exception of Amrito?!) has the right to contradict you. Quite a stance for a self-proclaimed “seeker”….

                • satyadeva says:

                  And isn’t that the trap many political campaigners fall into, obsessed as they are by the ‘righteousness’ of their cause?

                  Sooner or later, as is apparently happening with you, Shantam, fully identified with it all, seeing almost everything in terms of their particular ‘crusade’, intelligence disappearing behind endless repetitious variations of one essentially fixed narrative/theme, losing the willingness and possibly the capacity to see themselves, even in terms of such basics as being able to distinguish between reaction and response – just too damn inconvenient, I suppose?

                  The irony of a self-proclaimed ‘freedom fighter’ unable and unwilling to discern his own enslavement….

  15. Parmartha says:

    I am happy to use the word Mentor, or any other word you choose, Dominic, but I still consider that to be an important branch of human relating, and not to be dismissed in a fit of hurried disdain.

    Many who use the word master/disciple are a bit like me, they are a little tongue-in-cheek about the use of such words.

    But to be around someone who may be a bit further on, and with whom one has a meaningful connection, seems one of the best human relationships, if well handled on both sides.

    • dominic says:

      Well, whatever fits for you, Parmartha. I think there are differences between the words and the dynamic that is being set up, and mostly hear the phrase, ‘enlightened master’, being used in a sincere and matter of fact way by simple-minded folk.

      To me, perhaps as a westerner, it’s an alien concept imported from the more hierarchical, devotional, patriarchal cultures of the East. I think that’s quite different from saying someone “may be a bit further on”. “Tongue-in-cheek” suggests you don’t believe in it either!

      Anyway, someone might be further ahead in one area of life and at the back of the class in another.

      Certainly, all the ‘masters’ we’re discussing here fit the bill for me in that regard. Shortening your life with compulsive addiction to nicotine or hippie crack (and other issues), for example, sounds like a dick move to me. I struggle to find any mastery in that ;)

      • preetam says:

        The master concept isn’t only of the East! Even not in past…The West has master of many disciplines, like master of construction art, that are hundreds of years old – and many more.

        But most important again the freemasons. Because each ’33° Grand Master’ or worshipful master of freemasonry is highly adored by its members. This already since hundreds or even thousands of years. A highly spiritual group and they claim for themselves to be in possession of ancient Atlantean knowledge!

        Perhaps the Master idea came from West and went in the course of conquests to the East – possible!?

        • dominic says:

          Yes, I agree, Preetam, it is a part of human dynamics and hierarchies, wherever you look. I wouldn’t blink at calling someone a master of their craft, but when it comes to someone claiming mastery over your inner life…Run!

          • preetam says:

            Osho never lied to me, all he said proves true in itself. He helps looking deeper…deeper. For me, still the only rebel. Nobody has the same calibre, also not today. But everybody makes his own experience or has different approaches.

            Who is claiming over being master of somebody’s inner life? Seems an misunderstanding by seekers’ confusion, but I only can speak about my relation to Osho.

            Mastery, from my standpoint. For example, a ‘master of sculpture’ is someone who helps creatively – to grow something into ‘perfection’. It requires the same sensitivity putting Truth into the light. If a person has gone the full path he is maybe able to help understanding.

    • shantam prem says:

      Parmartha, may I ask, do you have some spiritual mentor at present or are you the mentor of someone else?

      I feel with the present state where humanity is, Mentor is more honest a word than Master.

      Also, the English lesson: if one is Mentor what is the word for other one?

      To be true, I am looking for a mentor too. Mentor who has Midas touch in making money and also has lively soul.

      • Parmartha says:

        Gurdjieff used the word ‘student’, or ‘pupil;, for his immediate followers, maybe better than ‘disciple’. And as far as I know, never talked about enlightenment or being a Master?

        But ‘pupil’ not perfect.

        Shantam, I like the word ‘mentee’. Someone who has a friendship or relationship with a mentor.

  16. Parmartha says:

    Maybe some of your scepticism, Dominic, is around shaktipat, which our generation used to sometimes call a “Contact High”. I can understand this, because it might give rise to the feeling of hypnosis, or having been hypnotised.

    Shaktipat is a Hindu concept, and as seems to be current in SN these days, there is much questioning of whether such concepts can be properly brought into western consciousness.

    Maybe even if shaktipat does exist there might be arguments for teachers not to activate it, as clearly it gives rise to inflated perceptions around the teacher.

    However, forgetting just for the moment about that, isn’t the larger question whether one can accept a ‘helping’ relationship based on trust, or simply want to do everything oneself?

    • dominic says:

      I think we’re on the same page, Parmartha, and you sound as sceptical as me!

      I don’t have a problem with contact highs. It’s just the word ‘Master’ has too many negative connotations. It implies slavery of some kind, giving over one’s authority, power and guidance to another, often without properly knowing them except for their stage persona.

      Balance learning from others with listening to your own inner guidance, then there is no problem.

      Real trust in a helping relationship takes time to grow, knowing the person quite well and successfully working through any issues that arise. But all this is a far cry from putting someone on a pedestal and calling them a ‘Spiritual Master’.

      It’s really a learning curve, the suggestibility and wanting to belong of youth, morphing into the sober reflection of ‘mature’ years.

      Strangely enough, I don’t have a problem calling someone a master pianist or magician or whatever, but in the ‘spiritual’ world it’s a poisoned chalice.

      • frank says:

        Shaktipat is theatre.
        Like so many powers that martial artists have to make people fly acroos the floor due to ‘their energy’.

        These things only happen in choreographed surrounds -dojos, meditation halls, with people primed.
        Just like a theatre.

        You must have heard anbout the experiment where they had a group of healers and a group of trained actors who had been shown how to act the healer by the healers.

        They monitored the responses of the patients or receivers of the healing and the Actors came out slightly on top.

        The healers claimed that the actors had unacknowledeged healing ability when the truth is, I would say, the other way round. The healers did not realise that they had developed acting skills.

        Re shaktipats, advaita meetings etc:
        This is a lot more about entertainment and celebrity than people imagine.

        People overlook here the similarities of the whole guru thing to other forms of entertainment. Getting up on stage, acting, rock ‘n’ roll, stand-up comedy, even after-dinner speaking. It’s all acting.

        Osho said something like:
        “when you are nobody, you have to act, what else can you do?”
        In fact, everybody is in this situation.

        These performers have certainly developed ‘presence’, which is taught in all drama schools.

        If you act a part long enough and diligently enough, the whole body becomes it. Look at Brian.
        In fact that `s what we`ve all done. The fact that we are all unique is a tribute to the innate Oscar-winning method acting skills that all humans are born with!

        Doing enlightened Buddha is not impossible as far as method acting is concerned. (Jim Carrey`s having a go these days and he`s got a following).

        Most satsangers, gurus do:
        Sit on your arse. move slow, maximise presence. Mot much emotion.
        When in doubt, keep your mouth shut.
        Not rocket surgery!
        No wonder there are so many takers.

        How many times have you heard performers of all sorts saying that
        being up there on stage is a better feling than than anything, even sex?

        Yes, the guy on stage has got a load of energy running through him.
        You and the crowd’s energy!

        Get him out of the crowd and what have you got?
        That`s why gurus stay in their cocoons, so as to always be “on stage”.

        • shantam prem says:

          So much wisdom, faceless frank!

          What was that emptiness in you that took you to India and made you follow Osho and his commune?

          I am sure, if it was not Resort, you too would have been still in Pune, in case healthy and a small stream of money from UK to arrange the life in India.

          One thing is clear, somehow many people have some kind of hole in their heart and people on the stage don´t have that hole!

        • dominic says:

          Yep, the Spiritual Bypass Theatre Company. You can be a short, chubby ageing windbag and young chicks are still gonna want to throw themselves at you, and get their shakti patted. What’s not to like?

          • frank says:

            “Spiritual Bypass Theatre Company.”
            Nice one.

            Shantam:
            “I am sure, if it was not Resort, you too would have been still in Pune, in case healthy and a small stream of money from UK to arrange the life in India”

            Sure about that?
            Really?

            • shantam prem says:

              Frank, you have given enough hints being in India for years. May I ask, if Lokesh has spent 7 years in India how many years in total you have spent?

              I don’t think you have first-hand experience of India Osho Commune and players through the old copies of Osho Tines!

              • Lokesh says:

                For what it is worth, I spent 10 years in India. Today I am more in love with the idea of India than the reality. India is a very dirty place and therefore I am no longer tempted to go there. Yes, it was always a dirty place, but now the filth is at an industrial level. Last time I flew to New Delhi my first thought was “What the fuck am I doing in this dump?”

              • frank says:

                Shantam,
                I went overland to India when I was 19, not really for spiritual reasons.

                A whacked-out hippy guy that I had met doing casual work got run over after taking too much acid and ended up in a nuthouse. He figured he wasn`t going to make it, so gave me his copy of the 1975 BIT guide (an early freak-produced “travel guide”).

                My friends were all going to Uni, but I didn`t fancy it at all and this looked like a good alternative.
                Spent 77-84 there.
                Visited Pune for 2 weeks in 81, just before Osho left, which I wrote an account of here on SN a while back.

                I have been to India for trips in 90s (when I visited Resort) and 00s for other adventures.

                I never really liked Osho Commune International that much. Just a cheap holiday in a kind of totalitarian Torremolinos, really.
                Meditated and loafed at the swimming pool for a few months.
                Never really worked out how people wearing mal-fitting robes and sandals with socks under could take themselves seriously!!
                Still can`t.

                Been to White Robe twice.

                Samadhi didn’t do it for me.
                That holy of holies thing too religious for me.
                Spent more time at the burning ghats.
                Here in UK, I like graveyards but hate the inside of churches.

                No plans to go back.

                So, I am no kind of insider or player. Although I did stamp on Devageet`s toes in a lunch queue once,he turned round and said “Sorry”. I`m more of a bum who happened to show up at a few Osho gigs around the world.

                I tried to say something about my experience of India in a poem once…

                India

                In a land where there is a law against nakedness
                In your own house,
                The oldest religion worships
                Holy men who wander around bollock-naked.
                Thus brazenly clothed in contradiction
                India mashed my mind
                Like an insane old man
                Stomping and trampling a well-kept garden.

          • Tan says:

            Does anybody know what is the picture on the mala of the fat guy ? Cheers

        • Parmartha says:

          I received shakti from unknown people a few times, once in a railway carriage, once in a pub, once in a market square…whoever they were were not “on stage” but gave freely. (Maybe I looked like someone who could receive it!).

          • dominic says:

            Perhaps you’d like to elaborate on the events, P. And what you mean by receiving shakti? What was your experience?

          • frank says:

            Me too,
            I had six pints of barley wine in the Pig and Whistle once, the barmaid winked at me and the Shakti blasted me right off my feet, I slipped over, banged my third-eye on a bar-stool, and it is said, that at that very moment, I reached nirvana.

            • dominic says:

              I have also been blessed with shakti!

              Once on Hampstead Heath, once in the Nag’s Head toilets, and once after some spice at the Electric Ballroom. All with complete strangers! Marvellous!

    • satchit says:

      “However, forgetting just for the moment about that, isn’t the larger question whether one can accept a ‘helping’ relationship based on trust, or simply want to do everything oneself?”

      “Based on trust”. By whom? By the disciple?
      If trust or more trust is the goal, then every dictator can be a master.
      Ever heard of the Milgram experiment?

      Trust in oneself gives freedom.
      I can imagine that a lot of sannyasins feel that their trust has been betrayed because of what happened on the Ranch.

      • Parmartha says:

        I never felt my trust betrayed by the organisation at the Ranch. I remember Sheela’s no. 2, Savita, saying something like Osho just did not care about the town she and others had created. I never cared for it either. Not the town, but the wretched “way” it was created, which amounted to servitude at times.

        As my friend Usha said, thank God, now we can get back to normal business (after the Ranch) and took herself off to Nepal and those great discourses there in Kathmandu.

        It is true that many left “Osho” after 1985, but they were somehow people identified with self-importance and/or building a city.

  17. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    @ Dominic (8 November, 2017 at 11:04 pm)
    Thanks for your information re the issue of calamities, and how they were/are perceived. Such stuff really deserves topics of threads.

    Thanks,

    Madhu

  18. swami anand anubodh says:

    For me, meeting Osho in person was of great importance for the simple reason that until that moment all I had was a created image of him in my head. An image which was shattered when we first met. He simply did not live up to my expectation. Which I quickly realised was a good thing, as him being so ‘human’ in reality seemed to somehow level the playing field. It was clear to me that there was nobody I would have to ‘become’, except ‘be’ the ordinary person I already was.

    It’s only when I had had this experience that it became clear what Zen means by ‘Selling water by the river’, but believing you can tell someone that and expect them to listen is like a millionaire telling a poor and wanting person that money will not make them happy. It’s something they have to experience for themselves. Even if it’s the hard way.

    I cannot remember ever thinking in terms of Master and disciple or surrender in those early days, I always felt that these concepts evolved in later years when large numbers came (perhaps as a form of crowd control).

    My lasting memory of Osho was the way he could make life difficult and uncomfortable for you, unlike the idyllic fantasy in your head.

    My advice would be to take what you can from Osho and then go out and find someone who is still alive.

    • shantam prem says:

      “My advice would be to take what you can from Osho and then go out and find someone who is still alive.”

      Very interesting down-to-earth sentence! I must say very honest too,

      Anubodh, who is the latest great Man you are presently ‘dating’?

    • satchit says:

      “It’s only when I had had this experience that it became clear what Zen means by ‘Selling water by the river’, but believing you can tell someone that and expect them to listen is like a millionaire telling a poor and wanting person that money will not make them happy. It’s something they have to experience for themselves. Even if it’s the hard way.”

      Yes, that’s true and the paradox.
      One needs to be very ordinary to play the Shaktipat Rag.

  19. Lokesh says:

    Satchit, what is your definition of what it means to be ordinary?

    • satchit says:

      Definition is difficult, Lokesh. Anubodh is right when he says one has to experience it.

      It goes into the direction of these old zen stories:
      Eat when you are hungry – sleep when you are sleepy – something like this.

  20. swamishanti says:

    Many years ago…in a field in Gloucestershire…there was talk of alien starships.

    Lights were seen in the sky.

    One night a group of friends, after seeing a light making strange patterns in the sky, decided to hold hands and hum together, and the light appeared to come closer.

    I remember this as I listen to Eat Static, Implant area 51 nucleonic mix.

    Om Shakti!

  21. Parmartha says:

    U.G.Krishnamurti visited Ramana just once.
    Ramana was reading a comic when he arrived and did not interrupt that. He then began chopping vegetables for two hours.

    UG dismissed the experience, he knew about people feeling a major change just from a glance of Ramana. At the end of the interview Ramana did answer a question or two, but dismissed UG by saying something like, “I have something to give you but you are not ready for it.”

    UG lived to a grand old age of 88, living around Europe, much of it on rich people’s floors or in their beds, and sort of lived an admirable itinerant life. But he never “GOT” shaktipat…It may be that some of the bloggers here are in the same place as UG…!

    • frank says:

      I think I might have just received a bit of shaktipat watching this clip…

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm3cPupGa88

    • shantam prem says:

      If this story is true, my admiration for UG has increased. Whatsoever he got or not, no one´s charity or grace is involved.

      There are photos, I think, of Sheela and other prominent ladies getting some kind of energy shower. Energy Shower seems to be the right translation of Shaktipat.

      From 1989 till 1993 hundreds of times I was participating as worker in high voltage Sannyas Initiation ceremony in Buddha Hall. When someone is in open and trustful space, energy drama becomes memorable moments of life and give some extra push to walk the talk.

      More than that I doubt. Shaktipat is not to spirit as cancer is to body!

      My feeling is natural processes prefer no shortcut. For what?

  22. anand yogi says:

    Again, the western baboons of SN show their misunderstanding of the wisdom of mighty Bhorat!

    It is easy to mock those who excrete down by the railway tracks, but those who are aware of and are gnanis of the solid and even runny Vedic science of the matter, know the truth.

    In the Puranas it is written that no one must defecate directly into water, thus doing it on dry land is in accordance with holy scriptures!
    Thus, even today, faced with public toilets, the devout masses of India, steeped in the wisdom of mighty Bhorat, will always miss water and hit dry land!

    Also, sitting by railway track in early morning is perfect time for recieveing Shaktipat from passing guru in railway carriage! Guru`s golden shower of grace is traditionally released onto tracks after large breakfast!

    The West misunderstands the nature of Shaktipat!
    Now, many yoga teachers from India are grabbing buttocks and gyrating on backside of attractive female disciples doing Adho Mukha Svanasana (dog-pose) and patting many shaktis, but westerners not understanding nature of ancient Vedic science of shaktipat and are refusing to surrender and complaining to police!

    Westerners also do not understand Kevin Spacey is disciple of Sai Baba and was practising time-honoured shaktipat learnt from guru himself on ungrateful disciples, but now unspiritual West utterly fails to understand!

    Also, full-frontal shaktipat of Harvey Weinstein has been misconstrued by female disciples who in mighty Bhorat would not have been allowed out and about at that time of night, anyway!

    Many moons ago, the Nine men of Ashoka, occult society Osho spoke of who tried to create world teacher out of Krishnamurti, attempted to introduce shaktipat into Scotland!

    Unfortunately, experiment went wrong and was lost in translation, but is reason why Glasgow kiss is still aimed at third eye and still some effect remains as receivers feel severe loss of ego!

    Yahoo!
    Hari Om!

    Yahoo!
    Hari Om!

  23. shantam prem says:

    Many western Orphans of last century gurus feel offended when young generation goes and find other gurus, alive and kicking. From such mindset comes the phrase, “That fat Guy”.

    Matter of the fact is, presence of Mooji brings as many spiritual tourists to India as it was during Osho´s times. Sannyas orphans too are very much into his gatherings.

    It is a wonderful fact, there is not a single guru anywhere in the world who does not have some Osho disciple around him. Once the big ship got leak, hundreds of passengers started shouting, “SOS, SOS!” by raising the arms!

    • Tan says:

      That’s right, Shantam Prem! You should do the same, go and find a guru who gives you some clarity, because you look confused.

      Osho is not for everybody, this I know, so why not try somebody else?

      Cheers.

      • shantam prem says:

        Me and confused, maybe helpless, yet better than those who think all is under their control.

        A faceless person who is writing behind a female fictitious name is writing, “Osho is not for everybody.” Surely he is not for cowards, cunnings and clevers.

        And anyway, I care not whether this or that dead person is for which group of people.

  24. shantam prem says:

    Tan and others can read the sentence again and feel what kind of expression is this to describe Mooji, “Does anybody know what is the picture on the mala of the fat guy?”

    Similarly ridiculing expressions were used for that Rajneesh who was calling himself Bhagwan.

    One may not treat someone as master, there is no need, but to spit on them is also inhuman.

  25. dominic says:

    I read an innocuous question and observation, SP.

    Where is the ridicule? There is a guy wearing a mala who is fat (possibly obese). One could go on…holding the hand of a young girlfriend, his current, also young girlfriend is just behind.

    Is it the word “fat” you object to? Fat is fat, skinny is skinny. Do you fear the word? When someone says they’re on a low-fat diet, are they just dissing and mocking others who are not?

  26. Tan says:

    Shantam Prem,

    You should know by now that feeling superior to anything is a waste of time and energy. Such thing is sheer stupidity!

    I don’t feel anything towards Mooji, but I can see in the picture that he is fat! About the picture in his mala, I am curious because I understand he is not Indian. Just that!

    What is your problem?

    Cheers!

  27. shantam prem says:

    To claim spiritual authority is the biggest power over others, much more than the power of money and glamour.

    So it matters not such people are fat or thin, small or tall, university graduate or high school drop-outs, or if some person feels he is not messenger of Unknown, innocent people and young women will follow and surrender. These people are trophies well deserved. Was with Osho something different?

    As I know a bit from internet search, Canada, Europe, India, whenever a man gets higher kick, He catches for sure one young butterfly! When this is last life of vicious circle, why not live kingsize and to say Goodbye with style?!

    In India, word Maharaj (great king) is used for queen´s husband and also for the one who has ashram and followers. Small or big, there are hundreds of Spiritual Maharajas in India. Guru Maharaj is a very common expression.