But somehow we have been asleep to our true nature.

The mind/pulse imagination activity machine continues for enlightened ones. The bodies keep cycling. Except they have become liberated from identification with name and form.

The quote below is taken from the ‘Mahanirvana Tantra’, chapter 14, ‘The Consecration of Shiva-linga and Description of the Four Classes of Avadhutas’,
as translated by Arthur Avalon.

Shiva is answering Parvati`s questions.

“By action men enjoy happiness, and by action again they suffer pain. They are born, they live, and they die the slaves of action.

It is for this that I have spoken of various kinds of action, such as Sadhana and the like, for the guidance of the intellectually weak in the paths of righteousness, and that they may be restrained from wicked acts.

There are two kinds of action – good and evil; the effect of evil action is that men suffer acute pain.

And, O Devi! those who do good acts with minds intent on the fruits thereof go to the next world, and come back again to this, chained by their action.

Therefore men will not attain final liberation even at the end of a hundred kalpas so long as action, whether good or evil, is not destroyed.

As a man is bound, be it by a gold or iron chain, so he is bound by his action, be it good or evil .

So long as a man has not real knowledge, he does not attain final liberation, even though he be in the constant practice of religious acts and a hundred austerities .

The knowledge of the wise from whom the darkness of ignorance is removed, and whose souls are pure, arises from the performance of duty without expectation of fruit or reward, and by constant meditation on the Brahman .

He who knows that all which is in this universe from Brahma to a blade of grass is but the result of Maya, and that the Brahman is the one and supreme Truth, has this.

That man is released from the bonds of action who, renouncing name and form, has attained to complete knowledge of the essence of the eternal and immutable Brahman .

Liberation does not come fram japa, homa, or a hundred fasts; man becomes liberated by the knowledge that he himself is Brahman .

Final liberation is attained by the knowledge that the Atma (Soul) is the witness, is the Truth, is omnipresent, is one, free from all illuding distractions of self and not-self, the supreme, and, though abiding in the body, is not in the body .

All imagination of name-form and the like are but the play of a child. He who put away all this sets himself in firm attachment to the Brahman, is, without doubt, liberated .

If the image imagined by the (human) mind were to lead to liberation, then undoubtedly men would be Kings by virtue of such kingdoms as they gain in their dreams.

Those who (in their ignorance) believe that Ishvara is (only) in images made of clay, or stone, or metal, or wood, merely trouble themselves by their tapas. They can never attain liberation without knowledge.

Can men attain final liberation by restriction in food, be they ever so thin thereby, or by uncontrolled indulgence, be they ever so gross therefrom, unless they possess the knowledge of Brahman? .

If by observance of Vrata to live on air, leaves of trees, bits of grain, or water, final liberation may be attained, then snakes, cattle, birds, and aquatic animals should all be able to attain final liberation.

Brahma-sad-bhava is the highest state of mind; dhyana-bhava is middling; stuti and japa is the last; and external worship is the lowest of all .

Yoga is the union of the embodied soul and the Supreme Soul,” Puja is the union of the worshipper and the worshipped; but he who realizes that all things are Brahman for him there is neither Yoga nor Puja.

For him who possesses the knowledge of Brahman, the supreme knowledge, of what use are japa, yajna,” tapas, niyama, and vrata? .

He who sees the Brahman, Who is Truth, Knowledge, Bliss, and the One, is by his very nature one with the Brahman. Of what use to him are puja, dhyana, and dharana? .

For him who knows that all is Brahman there is neither sin nor virtue, neither heaven nor future birth. There is none to meditate upon, nor one who meditates .
The soul which is detached from all things is ever liberated; what can bind it? From what do fools desire to be liberated? .

He abides in this Universe, the creation of His powers of illusion, which even the Devas cannot pierce. He is seemingly in the Universe, but not in it.

The Spirit, the eternal witness, is in its own nature like the void which exists both outside and inside all things, and which has neither birth nor childhood, nor youth nor old age, but is the eternal intelligence which is ever the same, knowing no change or decay .

It is the body which is born, matures, and decays. Men enthralled by illusion, seeing this, understand it not.

As the Sun (though one and the same) when reflected in different platters of water appears to be many, so by illusion the one soul appears to be many in the different bodies in which it abides .

As the void inside a jar remains the same ever after the jar is broken, so the Soul remains the same after the body is destroyed.

The knowledge of the Spirit, O Devi! is the one means of attaining final liberation; and he who possesses it is verily – yea, verily – liberated in this world, even yet whilst living, there is no doubt of that.

Neither by acts, nor by begetting offspring, nor by wealth is man liberated; it is by the knowledge of the Spirit, by the Spirit that man is liberated.”

From ‘Mahanirvana Tantra’

But if you hit the guy with a sledgehammer ‘he’ will very quickly be there…
and the surrender is not so easy.

Even Osho got pissed off one night and left the auditorium because someone was laughing too much in Buddha Hall….

A fascinating notion.

Free will. Phooey!!

The kind of thing that I`m on about is, for example:
‘You’ don`t beat your heart or operate your liver or kidneys or make your eyes see. It happens.

This is in spite of the fact that we say “my” heart,”my” liver, “my” kidneys, “my” eyes etc.

I wonder how much else in life is like that, without us noticing.

Here`s a groovy old version of it…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYXL2WwQn1I

Or would be mind volition?

How you see the difference between mind and conscious, in what you said? Cheers!

Which is probably why these mystic chappies say stuff like “You are the universe.”

Here`s a good one:
If you don`t trust your body, how/why do you trust the ‘you’ that is doing the distrusting?

“Trust is an important part of health.”

Frank, expand on this. Really interesting remark.

I suspect that ‘imagination’, the ‘unconscious’, is actually part of the body. Like the body, you have to get your extraneous ideas of how it should be acting out of the way, so as not to disturb its function.

Trust is an important part of health. If you try and beat it into submission, condemn it and control it, you`ll probably end up as the mental equivalent of those yogis who batter their dick and bollocks into a mush and think it’s spiritual!