Comments on: Sannyas cannot be organised

By: shantam prem

shantam prem — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 08:13:43 +0000

Shantam’s concept of Sannyas:
1. Shantam was not in the consultation team who advised Rajneeshpuram in India.
2. Was it Shantam who advised Bhagwan to board a plane and let us go for shopping tour in Canada?
3. Shantam was not the one who advised the master for the formation of Inner Circle.
4. It was not Shantam who requested master to leave behind his ashes. Have Buddha, Mahavira, Ramana, Punja ji left behind their ashes?

By: madhu dagmar frantzen

madhu dagmar frantzen — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 05:26:14 +0000

“But of course they could not compete with an organiser/evangelist like Paul, and one assumes they did not want to compete!

Maybe it is ever so, that there are esoteric and evangelical groups that grow up in the wake of such historical figures, and they will always squabble!” (Parmartha)

Yes, there is something very insane about the squabbe=ling issue, Parmartha, more so if people feel inclined to go even for criminal actions in civil life with their nowadays bunch of dump facebook-followers. Or with methods one associates rightly with regimes like former Eastern Germany or comparables on the Mafia lane.

Something very, very insane!

Madhu

By: samarpan

samarpan — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 03:50:47 +0000

“…one assumes they did not want to compete!” (Parmartha)

Quite so! We are not in a competition. How can we be? Things change, anything is possible, and nobody is exempt.

By: Parmartha

Parmartha — Thu, 02 Jun 2016 01:51:08 +0000

Back on topic…
I have been reminded by someone yesterday that Osho did ‘Have’ an ‘organisation’ when in the body, so he did not simply exist without one, like, for example, U.G. Krishnamurti.

Yes, and at some kind of level, so also did Jesus. In the latter case – well, giving the burden of his church to Peter, poor old Peter!

The more mystically inclined people around him seemed to go back into the desert, and the inheritors of the Essenes created their own inward communities. But of course they could not compete with an organiser/evangelist like Paul, and one assumes they did not want to compete!

Maybe it is ever so, that there are esoteric and evangelical groups that grow up in the wake of such historical figures, and they will always squabble!

By: satyadeva

satyadeva — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 21:58:26 +0000

Another way of avoiding the issue(s), Shantam – so predictable, such a bore.

If you seek any degree of credibility, get down to specifics, rather than impractical bullshine. Tell me, please, exactly what do you object to in my two posts of tonight (7.58pm, 9.54pm), point by point. Otherwise, shuttuppaayerface! (as some Londoners would say).

By: shantam prem

shantam prem — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 21:42:41 +0000

Satyadeva, let us make us like this:
You choose a shrink or a neurologist, we go through all the testing together. Let our reports be study material for the students of psychology and beyond psychology.

And in case I am diagnosed more sane and balanced than you, we can request Meera to go through similar tests in comparison with a non-descriptive Osho disciple.

Whether this be scientific or live in your own castle of hollow wisdom.

By: satyadeva

satyadeva — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 20:54:47 +0000

Basic impasse here is the discrepancy between Shantam’s concept of Sannyas and that/those held by more or less everyone else around here.

As I said in my earlier post tonight, Shantam’s personal situation, ie where he came from and where he is now, is pretty extreme, which, I suggest, explains a lot.

By: shantam prem

shantam prem — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 20:08:46 +0000

Can you elaborate what I want in your deviated imagination? Let us make the facts clear once forever in case you are open enough to see facts and distortions.

MOD:
POST EDITED.

By: shantam prem

shantam prem — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 20:01:34 +0000

With due humility I give an open invitation to anyone who was in Pune 2 to refute any of the facts stated by me in any of the posts in all these years.

Metaphors have my intellectual copyrights but the facts are irrefutable. Anyone can show my any dishonesty in the facts, I will apologize and offer 21 euros for compensation.

By: satyadeva

satyadeva — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 18:58:17 +0000

For my part, not “cynical”, Shantam (nor, if I can help it, apart from certain current ailments, anything like an ‘old man’), just highly sceptical re almost all your confident-seeming pronouncements.

Ever considered consulting The Book of Changes? Might help you realise, finally, the futility of wanting to re-live your best years – and similarly, the waste of energy involved in attempting to create meaning in your life by campaigning against ‘the regime’ (not to mention the misplaced degree of responsibilty for your personal plight that you assign to those ‘imperialists’ out there).

Still, notwithstanding that, and much more over the years, I’ll follow Lokesh’s recent example (and I trust his positive response to meeting you in person) in saying that I’m far from being without sympathy for your plight, over there in Germany, 6000 miles from your homeland, disinherited (I think) due to your sannyas, seemingly pretty lonely and purposeless (otherwise why all the daily hours of effort at SN and elsewhere?), having done little ‘wrong’, as it were, other than renouncing the expectations of your family and culture by committing your life to Osho’s Sannyas at an early age, following wherever that took you, ie in the end into a marriage that didn’t last and a solitary life spent arguing with and being lampooned by a load of foreigners whom, ideally (I suspect) you’d like to be your friends.

So I guess you must feel rather like a ‘fish out of water’, ‘belonging’ nowhere, surely not the fate you’d have chosen when you risked all for the ‘golden years’ (Freudian slip – I wrote ‘golden tears’ at first!) of Pune 2, a period that I imagine, for you, given the binding traditions you came from, must have been akin to, or more intense, even more of a ‘revolt’, than going through the seismic upheaval the 60s and 70s were for young westerners. Maybe that might explain your apparent obsession with reinstating that past – impossible, of course, if only because the master has gone.

Let me also add that I even have some admiration for your stubborn tenacity in withstanding such a continual barrage of criticism and satire, which, despite indicating a thick skin of monumental proportions, with, I’m afraid, as I’ve said many times, a concomitant foolishness, nevertheless manifests a strong native warrior spirit that I’m sure would take you far – if you could only see things the way others have urged you to! (I hear Ladbrokes are currently offering 10,000/1 on that outcome…).

So…that’s All for Now….