he degenerated into a greedy megalomaniac complete with rolls royces private jets and armed guards all with money extorted from the gullible sannyasins

but at least he never condemned other thieves; he always spoke with great understanding and compassion for his fellow criminals

and at the same time osho was, especially in the golden days of pune 1 the most inspired apostle of loive, freedom courage and revolution

i feel for the people arrested; they are in all probability far more innocent than dhyanesh and the cashram types

private properrty is almost all ways theft

the lovely people of yerwada need the money far more than the rich tourists or the cashram

pity they got caught!!!!!

thief n muggers are not good people

Once they stole my condoms from my safe…I belived it was from my decoration team of B.hall

and then I have to use the other safe method to reach nirvana…

Good parenting and education has benefits that are obvious. I disagree however with the view that ‘Western’ countries are collectively sufficiently sane that they no longer need the wisdom of guidance and the support of a meditative environment.

As people become more educated and civilised they become aware of their individual rights and their collective responsibilities. It is ironic that the idea of individual freedom is supported and this is somehow supposed to be a parallel with the situation in Pune. The operation of the Pune Resort is one that is coercive and dictatorial in style, and hence it is oppressing the individual freedoms of Osho sannyasins. This is the whole point of criticising the establishment. The establishment is an attack on individual rights and freedoms, and what makes it worse, it is done in the name of Osho.

Krant you use phrases like “there IS” and “trust me”. This is the sort of language that people in power use to coerce people to follow them and believe in them. It is the style of language designed to force your views on others, and to not allow other people to form their own views using their own intelligence.

Do you think it is a good idea to have 5 short stints at the resort anyway? This could easily turn into 5 short binges of escapism from your boring mundane world. This is precisely what Osho was trying to discourage. Sure it is that economic changes means the Osho space in Pune may at times be unaffordable for a lot of people. This does not however mean that the resort be run in an inefficient manner that drives up prices. Any organisation or society that has a leadership that rules with an iron fist destroys the organisation or society. This is because they do not allow the creative forces of the so many uniquely talented people to flower. The leadership thinks they no best, and impose their views strictly. This creates inefficiency and system breakdown. This is what is happening at the resort, and why we have a situation of high price rises without the equivalent rise in quality.

Only a certain type of individual is catered for at the resort. This is because the representatives of other types of individuals that were on the original Inner-Circle were evicted. This means for example that only relatively wealthy people can now afford the experience in Pune.

It is argued that Osho’s wish was to create a 5-star quality resort, and this obviously means that for such an experience the price will be increased accordingly. Of course management will no doubt say that the prices are kept as low as possible. First of all, as stated above, I would say the place is riddled with operational rigidity and therefore inefficiency. Also, even basic services are ignored (clean water and food), and so the quality is actually sub-standard. So the aim of 5-star quality is not achieved, despite the price rises. Finally, and most importantly, there is no reason why other types of individuals – with other types of spiritual needs and financial constraints – could not have been catered for within the supposed resort style set-up.

We already have a main restaurant for ‘general’ needs, and a more expensive Zorba restaurant to suit people who can afford a higher level of eating experience. Such divisions are arbitrary. I see absolutely no reason why there could not be other variations in price and service, whether this be for food or for meditation or whatever. For example, I am absolutely sure I could have set up a basic Thali that is nutritious and hygienically clean, and at a price that is remarkably affordable. There is also no reason for example why people who could not afford a flash restaurant or an air-conditioned pyramid could have meditated in the now open-air Gautama the Buddha meditation space. If it is hot or monsoonal, I am sure a series of small tent like structures could easily be inexpensively and safely erected. To make this run smoothly, there could be different colour-coded passes for different service combinations.

The thing is different types of individual needs (both financial and spiritual) are not met in Pune. It is not because Osho did not want these needs catered for. It is because a couple of individuals in the original Inner-Circle (namely Jayesh and Amrito) have certain spiritual and financial inclinations that they have imposed on the Pune space.

Kranti I understand the viewpoint of discouraging the long-term escapism and apathy that can so easily develop in religious communes. The point is that there needs to be a balance. At one extreme we have a bunch of hippies smoking pot and fucking each other all day and night. At the other extreme we have a bunch of fake yuppie tourists seeking an additional ego injection. Somewhere in the middle of things there can also be seekers that only want to do the meditations for 6 months, yet have financial constraints. Somewhere in the middle of things there can be seekers that have little financial resources, yet are absolutely sincere in wanting to make a positive contribution, and to learn to do everyday things in a meditative way (as SannyasNews pointed out in the introduction).

The financial and spiritual characteristics of the Pune resort only target a narrow spectrum of society. There are so many other types of people (with many other spiritual needs and financial circumstances) that also should be catered for. Osho catered for the weirdo, the groupie, the hippie, and the yuppie. His vast legacy meets all needs of all peoples, and the central organisation given responsibility for administering this has ignored the many for the sake of the few – that are like them.

Yahoo
Abhay

http://oshobuddhism.blogspot.com

I do agree with you that most of these facilities can be offered in a wellness center.. But the Key differentiator is Osho and Meditations and Awareness levels which is still high in Pune.. You will not find that in a typical wellness center

As far s the Aloks point that Parental guidance and Educaion has improved young people’ maturity it is general improvement in intelligence..It is very much evident.. we see that all the time in every aspect of life.. We can not pick up one section of society and use that as an example to show general intelligence has not improved.. There IS improvement in the level intelligence , awareness and conciousnessglobally ..

Even In India..Recently i had an opportunity to see how Indian schools have changed.. A 3 year old kid has rights and courageouness to walk into Headmasters room and complain if the teachers makes an attempt to abuse him / her.. This was unheard of in India ten years back.. Teachers were beating children with stick and they used to behave as though it is their birth right

There is so much awareness when it comes to politics and administration , standing up for rights.. Individual has become more stronger than earlier..

Trust me Individual and Individuality is always looked down in India.. Going with the society and obeying all bullshit rules was the norm ten years back.. I was condemed for listening to Osho and i was labeled as ‘ Not mainstream ;.. Now no one has courage to do that today..

I worked in the outsourcing industry for 8 years and i can see it has its benefits..you can never do away with outsourcing although some of the models and geographical preferences will change.. Most of them due to politica reasons and not due to the reduction in the benefits derived out of outsourcing

Again the global finacial crisis is part of the economic cycles and failed state policies.. Yes it may stop people like us in travelling to hi fi resorts for sometime.. Instead of going there 5 times you will go there 2 times.. But will that stop me from meditating.. I am afraid not.. Infact harder times will push people more into meditations

Me too keen to listen to oshobob on current state of Zen..

Kranti, anyone is welcome to set up a wellness centre/resort styled like the Pune Resort. Of course it is illegitimate to use this general concept in the Osho space in Pune because it was left to all of Osho’s people – as reflected in the original Inner-Circle. Also, I would not call what is in Pune a profound shift in religious values. All around the world, wellness centres have sprung up offering services along the same lines as the Pune Resort. If I set up a wellness centre I might like to focus on one spiritual Master – or not. Of course if a spiritual Master is actually in the body, that is a different story. If a centre is run by an organisation that is responsible for taking care of a Master’s legacy, this also would make it unique. This is very clearly not happening in Pune.

I accept the general idea of focus on the individual, but the idea of focusing on the individual does not mean exclusion of different types of individual spiritual needs. The personality type that is being catered for in Pune can be (and is being) catered for at a multitude of wellness centres. There are other individuals who have other individual needs, and some of these individuals are Osho or ex-Osho sannyasins.

Sodexo is part of a managerial structure that is going out of fashion. Out-sourcing is no longer in vogue. In Britain, many manufacturing companies are shifting there base back home. Part of the reason is timeliness of delivery; the other main reason is consistency in good quality. America is doing the same as a general long term strategy. Some firms view outsourcing information technology expertise to India as no longer being a viable strategy. The argument is that the decrease in quality and efficiency of worker output out ways the benefit from lower price per worker. Interestingly enough we have just had a report of out-source workers at the Pune resort involved in theft from resort guest rooms. When you say Sodexo is part of the modern way of doing business, I disagree.

So Kranti and AlokJohn are keeping up with the times. Have you heard of the global financial crisis? Do you know the level of debt and unemployment rate in a majority of developed countries? Do you think you will find much financial capacity in the clientele of Greece, Spain, Britain, Ireland, and indeed the United States? If you tell me that the Pune resort is catering for me the new-age Western, educated yuppie individual, and I am flat broke and unemployed, do you know what I might be inclined to think of you and your swank resort?

Yes OshoBob, share with us how Zen functions under Guru Hu. (I think he should change his name to Hu jinZen. JA & Gang should then go and build their empire of pyramids in China). Tell us also how Falun Gong functions. Tell us about the lives of the Moslems from far western China. Tell us about how Tibetan Buddhism influenced Chinese peoples far beyond the borders of the Tibetan sovereign state – until of course Tibet was decimated by military invasion. We can understand this historic example of tyranny and repression, and than overlay the concepts onto the current situation within the Osho movement. It would be a case of good parenting and education I should think.

Yahoo
Abhay