Comments on: Important Questions about the Ranch answered

By: satyadeva

satyadeva — Fri, 04 May 2012 22:51:33 +0000

I wouldn’t write off devotion as an authentic ‘path’, but I somehow think that pure devotion is a very rare bird in this benighted day and age…Still, I’ve come across a few people who seem to embody it and it’s a beautiful thing to behold.

By: Parmartha

Parmartha — Fri, 04 May 2012 21:54:42 +0000

read your references, Alok.
See no mention of Osho actually being denied entry to India.
Certainly people like Hasyo were harrassed and debarred from India at the time, but you know India, there is always a way, and quite shortly after as I recall, Osho’s work was up and running again.
I still maintain the World Tour was a very expensive mistake.

By: satyadeva

satyadeva — Fri, 04 May 2012 21:07:08 +0000

Sounds very much like the difference between emotion and feeling, the one invariably arising from all kinds of unhappiness, the other from a pure, one might say meditative space, uncontaminated by the past, hence by a trouble-making mind…(ie mind as servant rather than master, hence discrimination possible)?

By: alokjohn

alokjohn — Fri, 04 May 2012 20:46:21 +0000

After leaving US and a stopover in Cyprus, Osho’s first destination was India. But US put pressure on India to stop Osho’s work. See extract and link below. It took a year or more before US took the pressure off and allowed Osho to continue his work in India.

“So now the American government pressure on Indian government is that `I should not be attacked directly but I should not be allowed my trained people to live with me, so the whole work can be destroyed.

I have been informed by very intimate sources to the (Indian) government that first they don’t want any foreigners to be here, so anybody who wants to be here cannot get a visa.”

from http://www.oshoworld.com/biography/innercontent.asp?FileName=biography9/09-03-litigation.txt

By: Parmartha

Parmartha — Fri, 04 May 2012 20:08:03 +0000

Having just re-read some of this string which I must say shows good discussion, I think there has to be a distinction between devotion and the way of the heart. For me they have never been the same thing. Devotion is often opinionated, and full of certainty. The Way of the Heart seems to me to be something quite different. In fact it has no opinions and simply falls in love with existence and silence and play. I think the phrase is from Sufism. It is worth bearing in mind that Sufis even today do not “initiate” everyone by any means. Osho used to initiate almost everyone who took a whim to take sannyas. Hence those who become disciples of Masters within the Sufi context have already passed some kind of examination by the Master or tradition. And the surrender is often time limited to the period of the discipleship.
I myself feel the Way of the Heart is totally right, and can be combined with discrimination, etc. A mature man or woman needs both sides, and as the old testament prophet used to say, a time for the head, a time for the heart, etc.
As for the rest, devotion and surrender need more careful definition here.

By: Parmartha

Parmartha — Fri, 04 May 2012 19:50:21 +0000

The World Tour was a complete mistake and a disaster. A typical poorly informed executive decision by Amrito and Jayesh. Hasyo and John.
Because of commune isolation and nievety they wasted loads of cash on Lear Jets, etc when the only country really that could not refuse Osho was India, which proved to be the case in the end.
I had no sympathy then or now for throwing hard earned cash at that.

By: frank

frank — Fri, 04 May 2012 17:52:33 +0000

i agree with john.
everyone who surrendered shouldn’t complain, they were consenting adults

if you surrender your ego and think your ego`s gonna come up smellin’ of roses, then you need the lesson that can only be learned by surrendering your ego….
come on, it’s not rocket surgery!

By: frank

frank — Fri, 04 May 2012 17:11:57 +0000

youngman,
as he said,he was a hollow bamboo for existence.
even he did not know where the piece of music or the story would lead.
not being classically trained,he adlibbed it like a jazz guy…..he let go into it …
yet,existence wrote the story.played the tune…..
(same for everyone,like it or not)

the tune got a bit wild with a few notes not usually associated with classical meditation and the story had quite a few unsavoury characters and murky sub-plots.

it was existence that did it.
i dont blame him,he was,he said just a nobody.
so it was nobody`s fault,really.

By: alokjohn

alokjohn — Fri, 04 May 2012 14:10:22 +0000

My opinion would tend to be….

Providing you think that the money is going to Osho and his entourage then the money should be given, irrespective of the effects on Medina ex-residents. That is because Medina sannyasins had surrendered to Osho in the process of initiation.

By: Young sannyasin

Young sannyasin — Fri, 04 May 2012 11:40:53 +0000

Osho taught through extreme opposites. From one to another, and then again and again, you may find your centre. So the devotionalism was his request from the beginning, and listening to your stories it seems to have been taken pretty seriously at that time. Then after all the belief surrendering got destroyed, partly from the failure of Rajneeshpuram and the rest he had burned over in Poona 2. I have my doubts that he had deliberately planned everything from the beginning, as if he built the last pyramid to make all the pyramids collapse, but some people say so. Anyway, the main teaching is his life,including his mistakes, and is very visible for the whole world!