Comments on: An Enlightened Society ?

By: Young sannyasin

Young sannyasin — Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:40:20 +0000

many sannyasin too seems to be middle-class clones, just instead of a stern mum they need a mad daddy. Funny this story of the freudian who farted in her presence. I’m wondering what would happen if someone farted in the presence of Bhagwan Shree Raj. when he was in the body? Somebody know?

By: roman

roman — Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:30:48 +0000

Frank,
I heard the discourse about Devi and it was funny. De Nile is a big river and we’ve all had wet feet.

By: roman

roman — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:42:32 +0000

Frank,
As we’ve said maybe just bad story telling. Her disciples seem to be middle-class clones, needing a stern mum. All this ‘cooling breezes bullshit.’ A Freudian psychiatrist, very appropriate, farted in her presence when he bent over to touch her feet. He just had a hot curry. There was pandemonium and he was almost lynched. I guess that was crude. Eric Hobsbawn’s ‘How to change the World – Tales of Marx and Marxism’ is cheap and looks interesting. Most of these little essays haven’t been published before. Thanks.

By: frank

frank — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:54:24 +0000

roman,
there`s a lot of history there.
a quick resume…..

nirmala devi used to hang out with acharya rajneesh.
she later denounced him in very crude sexual terms and publicly denied she had ever had any connection with him.
there was some dispute about this…
the photo that you mentioned was then used to prove that she was a liar.

osho’s story of her was that they had gone to visit muktananda together.
when they came out,nirmala expressed surprise at muktananda`s apparent lack of intelligence.
osho replied something like:
you are right,it shows that any stupid person can become a guru.
nirmala devi got the transmission at that moment and went on to become a guru in her own right.

no wonder “seekers” are so confused when they are following these kind of characters.

and can you imagine these jokers like john rogue publishing books promoting and making prophecies that turn out never to happen?
how do they bullshit their way out of that,after the fact?
you`ve got to admire their sheer front,if nothing else.
or is it just delusion?
my mate dave,the quantum mechanic says
“never under-estimate the power of denial”

By: Preetam

Preetam — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:41:01 +0000

Tapas!

By: Lokesh

Lokesh — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:36:26 +0000

What kind of grass?

By: roman

roman — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:52:41 +0000

Teertha,
You are reminding me of Miller’s Crucible and he really researched the Salem’s witchhunts and linked them with McCarthyism. Huxley’s ‘Devils of Loudon’ comes to mind. ‘Oedipus and the Devil – Witchcraft, sexuality and religion in early and modern Europe’ is interesting. The author, Lyndal Roper, is a reader in this area at the University of London. Descartes played a role in the elimination of women being persecuted for witchcraft. We know he was a rationalist and he pointed out to the aristocracy that women weren’t responsible for animals dying or water being contaminated because of magic spells. Descartes was part of the scientific revolution but he went wrong with his ideas on animals and other matters. Seeing that we are looking at scapegoating I found it interesting travelling the world as a sannyasin.
I once received some hostile treatment from airport officers in Germany. There are other stories I could tell and we could all share. The scapegoating process is an interesting phenomena. On a more serious topic what’s a good Canadian beer? I’d like a sample before the nursing home.

By: Young sannyasin

Young sannyasin — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:13:49 +0000

that is just one part. People had lived in Europe a long time before those jews guy come to change the destiny of the western world (in a good or a bad way,i’m not really sure). Do you believe they have no religion, no cults, no mystical practice at all? They have,in many different ways, as polytheistic systems allowed much freedom of spiritual practice,like in India. Problem is that nothing remains from that except some legends, folklore and a few books (for example, The Metamorphoses of Apuleius). By the way, we are going pretty off topic with this and i don’t have academic study so i can’t compete with you.
“We have to let go of fantasies, whether they be of utopia or anything else. The main fantasy sannyasins have had to deal with is the idea that enlightenment = perfection. Osho’s life was testament to what was wrong with that fantasy. We seek such fantasies because we fear our own mortality, and our own warts. Utopia, or apocalyptic prophecies, are so seductive because they seem to rescue us from our personal failures.”
Agree.There may be collective failures as well, since it was a community that fell down,and responsibility was not the same amount for everyone involved. But that’s another story…..or not?

By: Young sannyasin

Young sannyasin — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:59:58 +0000

“Yes, I’m aware of the Inquisitions and all the people who were burned. The point I was making is that they were burned for false reasons, i.e., that they were supposedly part of some secret organized faith designed to spread the work of the Devil. There was no secret organized faith, no sabbaths attended by baby-eating, broom-flying witches who were fornicating with the Devil, and there was no Devil either.”
Agree with that.

“Also, most of these people burned at the stake were probably not herbalists, healers, or anything so romantic. Most were probably Christians who had failed to pay rent, bills, had feuds with relatives, etc., and were in turn accused of ‘malicia’”

By: Teertha

Teertha — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 23:46:02 +0000

Yes, I’m aware of the Inquisitions and all the people who were burned. The point I was making is that they were burned for false reasons, i.e., that they were supposedly part of some secret organized faith designed to spread the work of the Devil. There was no secret organized faith, no sabbaths attended by baby-eating, broom-flying witches who were fornicating with the Devil, and there was no Devil either.

Also, most of these people burned at the stake were probably not herbalists, healers, or anything so romantic. Most were probably Christians who had failed to pay rent, bills, had feuds with relatives, etc., and were in turn accused of ‘malicia’, the general term for ‘evil’ or ‘ill intent’ that could be used to prosecute someone. (This was what drove the Salem trials, and the Loudon ‘devils’ when Urban Grandier was burned alive when his only crime was having sex with a nun). The witch-hunters were paid by bounty, so obviously had incentive.

If there’s no Devil, no secret evil organized Underground, then there’s no need for other compensating fantasies, like a perfect Jesus to save the day (or a perfect Baba), or a false history about some perfect past that is soon to be repeated.

We have to let go of fantasies, whether they be of utopia or anything else. The main fantasy sannyasins have had to deal with is the idea that enlightenment = perfection. Osho’s life was testament to what was wrong with that fantasy. We seek such fantasies because we fear our own mortality, and our own warts. Utopia, or apocalyptic prophecies, are so seductive because they seem to rescue us from our personal failures.