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	<title>Comments on: Rancho Rajneesh, October, 2008</title>
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	<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174</link>
	<description>welcomes all sannyasins</description>
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		<title>By: Anthony Thompson</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-1501</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 19:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-1501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To have lived in a place where osho was residing is just not a good enough proof of being a witness to the events he discusses.
I am sorry, but still you have not provided a single proof of anything except books.
Anthony]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To have lived in a place where osho was residing is just not a good enough proof of being a witness to the events he discusses.<br />
I am sorry, but still you have not provided a single proof of anything except books.<br />
Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Roth</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-1471</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Roth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 10:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-1471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is not fair play. Anthony Thompson just ignores every argument I gave in a long thread on http://www.rebelliousspirit.com. Actually it is vice versa. He never was there. He is twisting it all. I repeatedly have told Anthony Thompson that I was in Poona I, in Oregon and in Poona II (after Oshos death, on various travels throughout Asia) and I have lived in various communes at that time too. I also wrote an article which contains many details. He read that article, long before he published this comment here. This kind of strategies and pseudo scientific talk remind me of reborn christians, who fanatically support creationism to defend their epiphany. This is cultlike, it will fit in most cult structures. Somehow the same approach, simmilar story. I deeply decline this kind of sophistry. I just think we have to learn from the past and not hide it, because to hide it, is an ultimate defeat and completely stupid.

Klick on the following link to get my article as PDF, containing many of the details and more:

http://www.authentic-spirit.net/denial_and_corruption.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not fair play. Anthony Thompson just ignores every argument I gave in a long thread on <a href="http://www.rebelliousspirit.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.rebelliousspirit.com</a>. Actually it is vice versa. He never was there. He is twisting it all. I repeatedly have told Anthony Thompson that I was in Poona I, in Oregon and in Poona II (after Oshos death, on various travels throughout Asia) and I have lived in various communes at that time too. I also wrote an article which contains many details. He read that article, long before he published this comment here. This kind of strategies and pseudo scientific talk remind me of reborn christians, who fanatically support creationism to defend their epiphany. This is cultlike, it will fit in most cult structures. Somehow the same approach, simmilar story. I deeply decline this kind of sophistry. I just think we have to learn from the past and not hide it, because to hide it, is an ultimate defeat and completely stupid.</p>
<p>Klick on the following link to get my article as PDF, containing many of the details and more:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.authentic-spirit.net/denial_and_corruption.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.authentic-spirit.net/denial_and_corruption.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Thompson</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-843</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is so strange to find Mr. Roth back. We discussed in another formum for quite some time till we departed in good heartful terms.
None of what MR. Roth says is his personal experience. As all of us he is quoting the Oregonian, satya bharti, shiva, ... etc, He has just read the literature around Osho and come up with his own understanding... which is nothing wrong.
When I asked him for a personal truth... actual, factual experience. He had none. He was just a sannyasin as many others with no access to any of the events he mentioned.
regards
Anthony]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is so strange to find Mr. Roth back. We discussed in another formum for quite some time till we departed in good heartful terms.<br />
None of what MR. Roth says is his personal experience. As all of us he is quoting the Oregonian, satya bharti, shiva, &#8230; etc, He has just read the literature around Osho and come up with his own understanding&#8230; which is nothing wrong.<br />
When I asked him for a personal truth&#8230; actual, factual experience. He had none. He was just a sannyasin as many others with no access to any of the events he mentioned.<br />
regards<br />
Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: amrito</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>amrito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 04:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[and so that no one is confused:

I haven&#039;t been to Rajneeshpuram or met Osho is the body (atleast not in this life :P). But what i&#039;m talking about is Osho&#039;s discourses way before 1981, between 1971-1981!! I havent even been close to finishing any of these discourses, but from what i&#039;ve heard so far, Osho cannot be summed up by 2-3 years in America or a few, handfull, of so called &quot;sannyasins&quot;. 

But I know, the social current certainly moves against Osho and its easier to be on the other side and be critical (which is a great academic tool). However, to feel the subtle nuances of Osho;s vision need not be defended, because everyone has their own freedom! There&#039;s no fanatatism, so Andreas, &quot;live your life&quot; (as Rihanna sings it). 

But what I find is, these Calders and Roths, always seem to want to &quot;save&quot; sannyasins from&quot;lies&quot;. Almost a christian way of doing it too, as a few christians have &#039;tried&#039; saving me from hell a couple of times! But never have I seen a sannyasin try to save anybody or tell them that their path is wrong!!! Amazing!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and so that no one is confused:</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t been to Rajneeshpuram or met Osho is the body (atleast not in this life <img src='http://sannyasnews.org/now/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> ). But what i&#8217;m talking about is Osho&#8217;s discourses way before 1981, between 1971-1981!! I havent even been close to finishing any of these discourses, but from what i&#8217;ve heard so far, Osho cannot be summed up by 2-3 years in America or a few, handfull, of so called &#8220;sannyasins&#8221;. </p>
<p>But I know, the social current certainly moves against Osho and its easier to be on the other side and be critical (which is a great academic tool). However, to feel the subtle nuances of Osho;s vision need not be defended, because everyone has their own freedom! There&#8217;s no fanatatism, so Andreas, &#8220;live your life&#8221; (as Rihanna sings it). </p>
<p>But what I find is, these Calders and Roths, always seem to want to &#8220;save&#8221; sannyasins from&#8221;lies&#8221;. Almost a christian way of doing it too, as a few christians have &#8216;tried&#8217; saving me from hell a couple of times! But never have I seen a sannyasin try to save anybody or tell them that their path is wrong!!! Amazing!</p>
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		<title>By: amrito</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>amrito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 04:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What I find is that the experiment with Osho, from 1931 to 1990, was completely a new phenomenon from the past. Yes, from a distance, things like that which Andreas  describes,  may have happened, but from a an even farther distance, it makes no difference to what Osho was offering. 

Even today, while Osho is not in his body, that essence of experiment and meditation continues. I&#039;ve listened to Osho&#039;s discourses deeply, drinking every gap and word I could, and for many years before the Rajneeshpuram fiasco, Osho often prepared ground. 

The message was experience, and he took everyone for quite a ride, and the ultimate key I found, was &#039;witnessing&quot;. People HAD to witness Sheela&#039;s barbaric tryanny and be concious of the mud surrounding such a beautiful lotus flower. 

Many things occured, but i don&#039;t need to say &quot;I believe Osho..&quot; was this or that. This word &quot;belief&quot; is irrelevant when I say Osho used everything possible to convey the unconveyable. His contribution continues even without his body and not as a &#039;dis-emodied&#039; master, but a witnessing essence. 

In math, a negative and positive coefficent on either side of an equation, cancel each other out if they are the same number. This constant play of negatives and positives makes math and makes the very fabric of existence. In the same way, in all these talks of Osho over the last 30 years, I can only hear the cancellations of contradictions and the essence of witnessing. Osho is absolutely closest to this when he says many times, the chair is empty.

Osho beyond his talks may be represented as the actions by his &quot;so-called&quot; desciples...who are? This word &#039;desciple&#039; is cunning. Descipleship cannot be trivial and be given to those who are merely &quot;organizers&quot;, even if they organized rajneeshpuram.  But this illusion that they were close desciples of Osho because they ran the place and made it abundantly rich, is just a social conditioning. 

Socially, money is the &quot;lie&quot; we all live in, whether we have too much or too little. Its just a tool to use, not a house to live in (maybe a tool to get that house). But, we judge so much according to money, but, essentially its just an illusion of meaning. If Osho remained a traditional mahatma or saint, without the abundance that was displayed, he would have earned the ranks in many schools of thought. However, everyone has their eye on money and Osho&#039;s rolls royces!!  (even noww!)

But those who can sink deep or rise between the gaps and song of Osho&#039;s vision (his work, his talks, his life), can laugh at our own stupidities this very moment!! Making Meditation accesible and &quot;in&quot;  is the greatest contribution of Osho, and I have gratitude of tears and laughter in every step. 

Happy birthday OSHO!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find is that the experiment with Osho, from 1931 to 1990, was completely a new phenomenon from the past. Yes, from a distance, things like that which Andreas  describes,  may have happened, but from a an even farther distance, it makes no difference to what Osho was offering. </p>
<p>Even today, while Osho is not in his body, that essence of experiment and meditation continues. I&#8217;ve listened to Osho&#8217;s discourses deeply, drinking every gap and word I could, and for many years before the Rajneeshpuram fiasco, Osho often prepared ground. </p>
<p>The message was experience, and he took everyone for quite a ride, and the ultimate key I found, was &#8216;witnessing&#8221;. People HAD to witness Sheela&#8217;s barbaric tryanny and be concious of the mud surrounding such a beautiful lotus flower. </p>
<p>Many things occured, but i don&#8217;t need to say &#8220;I believe Osho..&#8221; was this or that. This word &#8220;belief&#8221; is irrelevant when I say Osho used everything possible to convey the unconveyable. His contribution continues even without his body and not as a &#8216;dis-emodied&#8217; master, but a witnessing essence. </p>
<p>In math, a negative and positive coefficent on either side of an equation, cancel each other out if they are the same number. This constant play of negatives and positives makes math and makes the very fabric of existence. In the same way, in all these talks of Osho over the last 30 years, I can only hear the cancellations of contradictions and the essence of witnessing. Osho is absolutely closest to this when he says many times, the chair is empty.</p>
<p>Osho beyond his talks may be represented as the actions by his &#8220;so-called&#8221; desciples&#8230;who are? This word &#8216;desciple&#8217; is cunning. Descipleship cannot be trivial and be given to those who are merely &#8220;organizers&#8221;, even if they organized rajneeshpuram.  But this illusion that they were close desciples of Osho because they ran the place and made it abundantly rich, is just a social conditioning. </p>
<p>Socially, money is the &#8220;lie&#8221; we all live in, whether we have too much or too little. Its just a tool to use, not a house to live in (maybe a tool to get that house). But, we judge so much according to money, but, essentially its just an illusion of meaning. If Osho remained a traditional mahatma or saint, without the abundance that was displayed, he would have earned the ranks in many schools of thought. However, everyone has their eye on money and Osho&#8217;s rolls royces!!  (even noww!)</p>
<p>But those who can sink deep or rise between the gaps and song of Osho&#8217;s vision (his work, his talks, his life), can laugh at our own stupidities this very moment!! Making Meditation accesible and &#8220;in&#8221;  is the greatest contribution of Osho, and I have gratitude of tears and laughter in every step. </p>
<p>Happy birthday OSHO!</p>
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		<title>By: Atmo</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-424</link>
		<dc:creator>Atmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-424</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Beloved One,
It was a beautiful experiment. We often forget that this World is On Humanity. To learn the greatest thjings some pleasure may be lost.

Commune is a dream. It is a place for you to experience the reality.  It has to happen and one day, the whole world will opt iti is the way.

Thought about Ranch bring tears in my eyes. Your description was wonderful. Of course it will become a Pilgrimage plcae  for millions of Oshoites around the Globe.
Love, 
Atmo]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beloved One,<br />
It was a beautiful experiment. We often forget that this World is On Humanity. To learn the greatest thjings some pleasure may be lost.</p>
<p>Commune is a dream. It is a place for you to experience the reality.  It has to happen and one day, the whole world will opt iti is the way.</p>
<p>Thought about Ranch bring tears in my eyes. Your description was wonderful. Of course it will become a Pilgrimage plcae  for millions of Oshoites around the Globe.<br />
Love,<br />
Atmo</p>
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		<title>By: Satyam Dhyanesh</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>Satyam Dhyanesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the beautiful article and pictures Niten.  It is good to know that some organization is using the land with the intention of healing for American youths, who if they are sensitive will feel the vibrations of Love and Ecstasy left behind by Osho and so many of the sannyasins who lived lovingly at the Ranch.  
I was personally there off and on from 1982 to 1985 and remember the place fondly as that is where I first encountered Osho and took Sannyas.  

Regarding the rather lengthy and confused diatribe by Andreas Roth, sounds like you missed so much of what Osho was offering to us brother.  
Yes, mistakes were made.  Yes a group of sannyasins completely fucked up and it is a lesson to us all.  But, there was also so much beauty there in Rajneeshpuram, so much beauty in participating in the commune on a moment to moment basis and sharing the experience of Osho with thousands of people who for the most part had open hearts.  

I for one felt that there was something strange with the leadership at the Ranch.  But, I knew that it was the usual political bullshit that all groups, spiritual and otherwise have to deal with.  I chose not to participate in the politics but to be there for Osho and I was rewarded tremendously by his presence and his infinite gifts.  Despite all of the circus atmosphere and the politics, I looked beyond all that directly to Osho and he showered his blessings on me, for which I will always be profoundly grateful.  
When Osho went back to Poona, for me that was sheer ecstasy as we didn&#039;t have to focus on building a city with all of the stresses involved in that and in the politics of America but could just relax into deep meditation.  The way I see it, Osho taught for nearabout 30 years mostly in India but also in America and on his world tour.  The American episode lasted about 4 years.  The rest of it lasted over 20 years and countless sannyasins were profoundly blessed by his teachings and his Sacred presence.  Many of his sannyasins became enlightened.  And many more are moving powerfully in that direction.  So, having been in Rajneeshpuram and having seen the beauty and ugliness of it and having been in Poona and having experienced the silence there, what is left for me to express?  Absolute and total gratitude to Osho for the entire experience of being with him.  I feel no need to single out and condemn and obsess over whatever (very real) mistakes were made.  I simply chose to celebrate the unending gifts that our elightened master continuously showered on us and continues to do so to this day.
Love,
Satyam Dhyanesh]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the beautiful article and pictures Niten.  It is good to know that some organization is using the land with the intention of healing for American youths, who if they are sensitive will feel the vibrations of Love and Ecstasy left behind by Osho and so many of the sannyasins who lived lovingly at the Ranch.<br />
I was personally there off and on from 1982 to 1985 and remember the place fondly as that is where I first encountered Osho and took Sannyas.  </p>
<p>Regarding the rather lengthy and confused diatribe by Andreas Roth, sounds like you missed so much of what Osho was offering to us brother.<br />
Yes, mistakes were made.  Yes a group of sannyasins completely fucked up and it is a lesson to us all.  But, there was also so much beauty there in Rajneeshpuram, so much beauty in participating in the commune on a moment to moment basis and sharing the experience of Osho with thousands of people who for the most part had open hearts.  </p>
<p>I for one felt that there was something strange with the leadership at the Ranch.  But, I knew that it was the usual political bullshit that all groups, spiritual and otherwise have to deal with.  I chose not to participate in the politics but to be there for Osho and I was rewarded tremendously by his presence and his infinite gifts.  Despite all of the circus atmosphere and the politics, I looked beyond all that directly to Osho and he showered his blessings on me, for which I will always be profoundly grateful.<br />
When Osho went back to Poona, for me that was sheer ecstasy as we didn&#8217;t have to focus on building a city with all of the stresses involved in that and in the politics of America but could just relax into deep meditation.  The way I see it, Osho taught for nearabout 30 years mostly in India but also in America and on his world tour.  The American episode lasted about 4 years.  The rest of it lasted over 20 years and countless sannyasins were profoundly blessed by his teachings and his Sacred presence.  Many of his sannyasins became enlightened.  And many more are moving powerfully in that direction.  So, having been in Rajneeshpuram and having seen the beauty and ugliness of it and having been in Poona and having experienced the silence there, what is left for me to express?  Absolute and total gratitude to Osho for the entire experience of being with him.  I feel no need to single out and condemn and obsess over whatever (very real) mistakes were made.  I simply chose to celebrate the unending gifts that our elightened master continuously showered on us and continues to do so to this day.<br />
Love,<br />
Satyam Dhyanesh</p>
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		<title>By: Isha</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-418</link>
		<dc:creator>Isha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I dont think osho `became` corrupted! I just felt a tremendous love in his presence in poona two and dont feel he somehow `lost` his integrity. The energy in buddha hall and the commune was beautifull!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont think osho `became` corrupted! I just felt a tremendous love in his presence in poona two and dont feel he somehow `lost` his integrity. The energy in buddha hall and the commune was beautifull!</p>
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		<title>By: Isha</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-417</link>
		<dc:creator>Isha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-417</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Its all a bit nagative isnt it what about all of the positive growth that happened around osho in ranch and poona two and continues to happen ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its all a bit nagative isnt it what about all of the positive growth that happened around osho in ranch and poona two and continues to happen ?</p>
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		<title>By: Heraclitus</title>
		<link>http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/174#comment-411</link>
		<dc:creator>Heraclitus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sannyasnews.org/now/?p=174#comment-411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Andreas
A great attempt to be honest, but could you be one of those who was not quite &quot;ready&quot;?  I also was there in the communes and on the Ranch,  and dont have any real observations about right and wrong or good and evil. it simply was. Something in me gestated in that time, and it did not have the taste of good or evil,  but it was a taste I never had before. 
By the way, you seem keen on the &quot;facts&quot;!  
Somendra and Laxmi left the Ranch shortly after they arrived in 1982,  not in 1985 as you state..   Somendra did not leave in&quot;conflict and contradiction&quot; he left confidently and because he simply wanted to be his own man, and no longer be a disciple. He told me so himself.
He also left long before there was any hint or whiff of scandal in the so-called movement.  He then went on to create his own sangha and still inspires people,  right up until today. He never &quot;poached&quot; sannyasins to get customers, (like many other therapists did after the Ranch) but worked hard to in fact work with people who had never known Osho.  if he is a &quot;graduate&quot; of sannyas then maybe sannyas has more to be said for it than you suppose.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andreas<br />
A great attempt to be honest, but could you be one of those who was not quite &#8220;ready&#8221;?  I also was there in the communes and on the Ranch,  and dont have any real observations about right and wrong or good and evil. it simply was. Something in me gestated in that time, and it did not have the taste of good or evil,  but it was a taste I never had before.<br />
By the way, you seem keen on the &#8220;facts&#8221;!<br />
Somendra and Laxmi left the Ranch shortly after they arrived in 1982,  not in 1985 as you state..   Somendra did not leave in&#8221;conflict and contradiction&#8221; he left confidently and because he simply wanted to be his own man, and no longer be a disciple. He told me so himself.<br />
He also left long before there was any hint or whiff of scandal in the so-called movement.  He then went on to create his own sangha and still inspires people,  right up until today. He never &#8220;poached&#8221; sannyasins to get customers, (like many other therapists did after the Ranch) but worked hard to in fact work with people who had never known Osho.  if he is a &#8220;graduate&#8221; of sannyas then maybe sannyas has more to be said for it than you suppose.</p>
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